- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
Young women are more liberal than they have been in decades, according to a Gallup analysis of more than 20 years of polling data.
Over the past few years, about 4 in 10 young women between the ages of 18 and 29 have described their political views as liberal, compared with two decades ago when about 3 in 10 identified that way.
For many young women, their liberal identity is not just a new label. The share of young women who hold liberal views on the environment, abortion, race relations and gun laws has also jumped by double digits, Gallup found.
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can we stop using Taylor Swift as a spokesperson for all young women? like I’m all for her as a pop singer, but the media gives that billionaire too much clout as a representative of all young women. can’t we just say young women speak for themselves without it requiring a billionaire woman to illustrate something for them?
Also, as a woman about the same age as Ms. Swift, I’m fucking 30. Millennials aren’t young anymore. We’re just regular adults now
Us young men get the same treatment but with scumbags like Andrew Tate, go figure.
I feel the pain.
My .02? There’s a large swath of “conservative” women who like the idea of going to church, being a stay-at-home mom, and having a husband that goes to work every day and provides for them. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that life.
But what they found out is the guys espousing that lifestyle actually want to treat their wife as property. There was a solid 30 years of momentum building around “maybe I don’t want to have a two-income household, maybe I just want to be a mom”. Unfortunately, while the women were thinking “we’re partners in this household, I take care of the meals and the kids, you take care of making money” - the dudes were thinking “I own you, you do what I want, I do what I want, if you talk back, I’ll put you in your place”.
I’m a liberal dude who earned enough that my wife could stay at home and raise our kids until corporate greed gave me a one two punch of rapacious price increases (because they could get away with it) and stagnant wages (because they expect me to put up with it). She was doing a lot of work on the household all the time.
Luckily she went back to work after our kids became much more self sufficient and could participate in taking care of the house.
Never thought of myself as king of the house.
(She the Queen, though)
Topic:
Women are voting more liberally because they don’t like conservative positions on abortion, guns, and the environment.
Weird dudes in this thread:
“Men are being left behind!”
—-
Wut.
A few of the women I work with who are vocal about their politics, will quite firmly point to how conservatives still engage in victim blaming if a woman gets sexually harassed or assaulted, to say nothing of rape/murder, to their reasons for going blue.
Their reproductive rights being curtailed while men old enough to be their father get viagra covered through their insurance telling them to just shut their legs is just a horrific bonus.
I understand how abortion and guns can/do have a womens exclusive perspective, but how is the environment a womens issue? By environment you mean things like climate change and pollution, right?
I can understand how liberals vs progressives would have different views…but I’m not grasping how men vs women would.
There’s a sense of “Caring about nature is effeminate and for wusses” in toxic masculinity.
Which I find extremely odd, since some traditionally masculine activities are nature oriented. Hunting, fishing, outdoorsy stuff in general. It wasn’t that long ago that (environmental) conservation was a huge component of those activities to ensure continued access for people to those activities. Maybe it still is but I certainly don’t get that impression as strongly anymore.
In my area the types of guys into outdoorsy stuff also tend to trash their campsites.
I can’t count the number of times I go hiking and find beer/monster/soda cans, empty beefjerky bags, lead fishing weights that were cut off and left next to the rest of the garbage, piles of empty shotgun shells(not just one or two that were missed or fell out of a pocket), cigarette butt’s and boxes, ect.
It’s always really shitty to find a part of the forest like that. Especially if I can see where there was tree stand above the pile of garbage. I get that deer are basically overpopulated due to milder winters, but take care of the forest my dudes.
Teddy Roosevelt was a big conservationist. He would’ve happily knocked some heads over the idea he was effeminate for it.
I take part in a lot of outdoorsy activities, there’s kind of a split. Lots of conservation-minded folks like myself, and lots of assholes who don’t seem to realize or care that they won’t be able to go hunting, fishing, etc. if they develop over all the woodlands, poison the waterways, etc. and just want an excuse to shoot something or justify their much-larger-than-needed, lifted, coal-rolling truck.
Also a fair amount of people who don’t feel particularly strongly either way.
Sales of hunting/fishing licenses and such do end up funding a lot of conservation efforts, though arguably in a lot of cases the money doesn’t necessarily go where it’s most needed.
The more conservation-minded folks tend to be quieter about their interests and don’t make it their whole personality, they’re usually not the ones posing with a deer or fish in their profile pic.
Weird conservatives have never been know to understand things like “longterm effects” or “treating what they have with any respect”.
They like buying trucks, guns, and knives. They like showing those things off. Like the “rustic charm” in the memes that are really just about how anti-social they are. They like wearing red and black flannel, camo hats, and acting like they could totally live off the land just because their entire idea of nature is about who’s more violent.
The people who can name the birds and trees, who gather responsibly, and just like to go for a nice canoe aren’t usually too conservative. Obviously it happens but that requires a level effort and stewardship for the land that’s often incompatible with the personality required to grasp onto conservatism.
I remember when Steven Seg*all was a strong supporter of the EPA.
I think he still is!
Oh wait, I just realized that you probably mean the “Environmental Protection Agency.”
Here I was thinking you meant the “Eager for Punani Association.”
Oh…hadn’t heard that. Guess I’m a big ol’ sissy for loving trees. Oh well.
A lot of people also conflate dominion with domination, in certain faiths.
Burning fossil fuels and polluting is viewed as masculine, whereas caring about the environment is feminine, in a phenomenon sociologists have coined as Petro-masculinity. Think of those men who roll coal in their lifted trucks towards cyclists in lycra, who they view as “gay”.
Petro-masculinity: Fossil Fuels and Authoritarian Desire - Cara Daggett, 2018 - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0305829818775817
People are weird. I see nothing masculine or anti-masculine about recycling, or driving an electric car.
Like…it doesn’t even seem related to how tough you are. If anything the really masculine guy would be the one who rides his bicycle everywhere.
Really built calves. Leg muscles. Able to go 40mph from your legs alone. Isn’t that the real tough guy? Not the guy who gets into a large truck, and slightly presses a pedal downward.
Like I said. People are weird.
I don’t know why either, but in I heard the same thing: more women tend to care not about the environment than men. Anecdotally, a lot of environmental related stores > and groups I go to are a majority women attended or assumed at women.
Caring about pollution is associated with wimpy electric cars instead of manly trucks, and the not manly activity of taking transit or cycling, and soyboy diets instead of steaks, and omg electric stoves, etc.
And I don’t understand that, because my wimpy electric vehicle will leave your archaic, noisy, pollution belching vehicle in the dust, and will do so in effortless silence
But does it make vroom vroom noises?
“Men are being left behind!”
They gotta get with the program! Lol
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Ok, but what does this have to do with the article? You’re brining up a totally different topic.
I am just responding to what someone said.
Women really need to reevaluate their position on guns. Guns are a self defense tool and a great equalizer that will allow you to defend yourself and your family against a rapist or home invader twice your size and double your strength. Gun rights are women’s rights and empowerment for women.
Most rapes come from family members. At which point a kitchen knife when they sleep is more than enough
Imagine being downvoted for thinking women should be able to protect themselves.
Imagine telling women who have experienced extreme violence that your solution for them is further violence. I cannot own a gun for my mental health. We can protect everyone by working to prevent violence.
Guns are more likely to cause an accident than be used in protection. Getting a gun decreases your safety.
Ignoring the annoying way in which liberal has been re-christened into anything vaguely left-wing in U.S. parlance, this seems hardly surprising since the conservative side seems both anti-young, and anti-woman.
Here on Lemmy leftist means communist to some people, but liberal means corporatist Democrat to me.
Progressive or leftist is what I call myself depending on context. If I’m among a group that will immediately think I mean communist, then I stick with progressive.
The thing is, liberal means something rather specific to me - open, against regulations. If you’re socially liberal, I’m probably on board. If your liberal regarding the financial market, we’ll probably disagree.
I suppose someone who is extremely liberal in all regards following this definition would be what most people in the U.S. would call a libertarian.
In the end, shouting at clouds about me thinking that people are using words wrong won’t do much, and generally I’m very open to language evolving, but this one always gets me because it’s one region specifically using it differently than what I learned.
Even if you and I disagree slightly on the meaning (I suspect my definition is more colloquial than yours) - I definitely agree with you that it’s applied slapdash against far too broad a segment of society.
Exactly, liberal means both German center-right CDU and the US Dem mainstream. They are on the same ideology.
I don’t want to ignore it. Calling yourself liberal on the environment and gun laws just makes me think you want more polluting industry and more guns.
I like it. I’m going to call myself an environmental conservative now.
Maybe even a conservationist.
Not triggering enough
Explain please.
Liberal, as in liberty, as in freedom from restriction. Being liberal on abortion means you’re against more abortion laws. Being liberal on guns and the environment similarly means deregulation to me.
There is not just one language of political discourse at this point. It’s almost impossible to be clear when you can’t be sure in which context your reader is operating.
This really shouldn’t have come as a surprise. Trump and MAGA came about from disillusionment in politics and the rural working-class feeling left out, with the right sensing an opportunity to say outlandish shit to stand out.
Today, women are disillusioned because they can’t afford to buy a home, can’t afford basic healthcare like most civilised countries, have zero workplace protections, have zero control over their own reproductive organs, and are lumped into the “DEI” category whenever the right discusses whether they should have opportunities in the workplace.
I say this every time an American article is posted around the sheer surprise that something is happening. It isn’t new. Trump was preceded by Brexit and the rise of the right in Europe. Thankfully, we’ve also seen the implosion of the right over the last year or two, so if Harris can win then you’ll all be glad to hear that it’ll be a bloodbath of back-stabbing and finger-pointing as the right fight for whatever scraps are left - all while the loser sits on the sidelines shitting on their former allies for having the audacity to succeed them.
With all that said, it’s a great thing, but hopefully this isn’t just pushed as a women-only thing. Real change needs everyone pushing in the same direction, and that needs real unity - something a good leader can bring.
The conservative postion literally sees you subhuman … Its the conservative women that amaze me … How?
Because most people run on their personal experiences, and don’t do great when they have to think very far ahead or extrapolate and make connections.
If you’re lucky enough to be born into a conservative home that’s not bugshit crazy, and you’re lucky enough to not be TOO smart, neurodivergent, gay/lesbian/trans/etc. then you’ve probably never seen the full ugly face of conservatism because you were treated nicely.
Lots of conservatives will treat you perfectly politely…if they get to know you, and as long as you look white and clean-cut enough. As long as you give the right social signifiers, basically.
Most of my ex-conservative friends group was driven away from conservative family because we were abused in some obvious fashion, were gay/lesbian/trans, were neurodivergent, etc. We were different in ways that, ultimately, after a lot of pain, forced us to cut ties with family. (It was never our first choice though.)
But a woman who was lucky to be born into a family that treats her halfway decently won’t experience that sort of ugliness until an emergency happens and it’s leopards-eating-faces time.
And it’s VERY hard to rock the boat BEFORE something bad happens to you, when you know rocking it will have really bad consequences immediately. People don’t like to be shunned or kicked out of families, so if they’re not treated TOO badly they’ll toe the line and conform out of fear of the unknown and fear of losing everything they have and know.
Your last paragraph here is very important. There are massive political implications to these kinds of family and group dynamics.
Thank you for your thoughtful response to my blasé comment about a captain obvious level of Duh from a headline.
They don’t understand that that means inability to get a divorce, not being able to open a bank account, not having the right to vote, etc. The conservatives will say all the polite words like family values which sounds fine.
I mean that kind of trust only works if you’re seen as an equal. Which is hard to come by.
Shocker, when women lose basic reproductive healthcare rights, their views on abortion legislation and conservative politics change significantly.
I didn’t think the leopards would eat MY face
Ahh cut the crap. The right swung away from women
Don’t buy the “tradwife” myth. That’s just six or seven creepy “influencers,” who figured out how to make money from conservative boys dumb enough to think they have a relationship with fake online personalities.
And more than one women who has gone down that route, including influencers, has ended up regretting being dominated by their husband 24/7. Even if you’re into domination, this is a life where there’s no safe word.
https://unherd.com/2024/05/lauren-southern-the-tradlife-influencer-filled-with-regret/
(Note, Lauren Southern is still a horrible right-wing influencer, she’s just no longer into the tradwife thing.)
Wonrr what happened to that Tami Loren lady after her face got eaten bc she wasn’t in lockstep about abortion. Haven’t seen her face in the news in years now.
Over the past few years, about 4 in 10 young women between the ages of 18 and 29 have described their political views as liberal
I wonder how the other 6 in 10 young women would describe their political views. While 40% isn’t a majority, I would think liberals are a plurality. Still, it’s a little disheartening that there isn’t a clear majority in the US. It would be nice if a majority of Americans could reach a consensus.
The survey included moderate on the scale so 40% does not mean that 60% are conservative. The article only covered the portion that was liberal or very liberal.
They have christocaptilfacism…am American and not part of the consensus
Also, reminder to vote early, ladies.
I fixed it for you. For some reason Lemmy seems to want to full URL.
Thanks
Well “conservative” (i.e. “Republican”) has shifted to such a weird place that people who aren’t weird probably feel compelled to call themselves “liberal” (probably meaning they’ll vote for Democrats).
If I could change the way we talk about politics, most labels would go away. Because to me, most people are either “conservative”, or “normal human with opinions”. I am only for using a label for conservatives because they fall in line, every goddamn time. Those motherfuckers basically all support Trump. If you want to be seen as an individual or as having a thought-out point of view, you do not get to support someone for whom a news outlet made a specific database to keep up with their tens of thousands of public lies. You do not get to support someone who brags about becoming a dictator and who praises dictators. I mean even just his history with women is enough, but his actions that ruin millions of lives should be unforgivable and unsupportable for nearly anyone. But they support that. So they don’t get to be individuals. Their support leads to legalized bigotry, suffering, and death. And there are other people, most of whom have at least some defensible views. Conservatives have none that I’m aware of.
Good to hear. I feel they don’t have to gain that much with conservative politics, it’s good to see they’re taking action.
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Your username really hit the nail on the head.
Is it not true? Men make up most of the fascist party and most men are fascist. Unless someone has a counter point what else can we make of this?
most men are fascist
I mean, citation fucking needed.
https://cawp.rutgers.edu/gender-gap-voting-choices-presidential-elections Most men vote republican. It’s a fact.
Most men vote republican
Most men who vote vote republican.
Not everyone supported nazis, but sat by and let shit like the holocaust happen.
Well, if you’re going to move the goalposts that far from “most men are fascists” (which was throwing out the baby with the bathwater in the first place) what even is the point of discussion?
Good day to you.
Not surprised, society is failing young men hard.
Men are worse off today than previous generations, yet at every step they’re villainized. Meanwhile they see everyone else being empowered and advocated, while they get left behind and yelled at.
And tonedeaf people will see this post and think it’s men complaining that women are getting empowered, not men complaining that they’re being failed by society.
Hardly inspiring.
Edit: And so the downvoting begins, by all means keep burying your head into the sand. Who could ever know why men aren’t becoming as progressive as women, guess we will never know! Every refusal to acknowledge the issue, is cause for it to grow bigger.
Hi, I’m a teacher. The young men I see ‘villainized’ tend to make their own life harder by feeling entitled to money and status without actually trying to achieve anything. Their entitlement then causes them to act in unpleasant ways.
I don’t see many young men being treated badly simply because of their chromosomes or external genitalia.
yet at every step they’re villainized
Sounds like you’re saying that if a man goes to the bathroom and washes his hands he is villainized. After all, washing your hands is a step in a procedure.
You probably don’t mean that. Maybe you are employing hyperbole to make a point. Please explain.Seeing as you’re a teacher, how do you rationalize less men getting into higher education? When boys are performing worse than girls in school, do you just pretend this isn’t statistically and factually happening to them so that you can continue to ignore it’s maybe the signs of a problem.
Maybe you don’t see it, because you don’t want too?
What the hell is this thread?
This article is about issues like abortion pulling more women into progressive politics.
Some sad turd had to make it about men. There’s always one.
You mean where more young men are choosing to go into the trades, where women are generally harassed out of, instead of college?
I bet there’s still plenty of young men going into comp sci, which is also famously hostile to women.
The gender ratio in compsci in my institution is around 8:2 male:female.
My software engineering major was about 15:1.
My partners software development teacher, who was also a woman, told her in respect to the men who were being hostile to her “get used to it, because it will be the same in the workplace.”
Sadly, some women are reluctant to help each other.
While there’s not enough context here, they do need to get used to it. Of course, help a student out in the current situation but the fact is they are going to experience sexism and do need to figure out how to handle it on their own or how to find any help they need.
I don’t like denigrating my fellow software engineers, but it’s a field known to be male dominated, with a stereotype of poor social skills and presence of a lot of people from more conservative cultures. I like to think most of us are neither sexist most racist but odds are most women in the field will run into it
When boys are performing worse than girls in school, do you just pretend this isn’t statistically and factually happening to them
Ah, very clever. You’re trying to paint the issue of “performing worse” as “happening to them”, as if boys are being oppressed.
Please do keep on revealing your biases in your language, I find it fascinating. Oh, and do make sure to tell all the boys and young men around that you don’t hold them accountable for their own actions, because they apparently have no power over how well they perform. I guess all those naughty girls and women are firing their filthy female mind rays at them, taking away their ability to do homework and revise for exams.
Are boys actually performing worse in school in a way that is in control of the teachers tho? Its not like teachers can chain children to books until their learn the kid has to want to learn either way.
You’re being downvoted because you’re trying to change the topic, and you’re trying to have some sort of conversation about men being left behind.
This is an article about women voting more liberal because of changing on opinions abortion, guns, and the environment.
Society isn’t failing young men hard — let’s be more specific — Republican toxic masculine rhetoric is failing young men hard. There’s a reason there is so much overlap between MAGA and Inceldom, and it revolves around the false perception of what it means to be a manly man. They stifle their own emotions, yet rage on roids, get buff, and treat women like pieces of meat and then turn around and ask, “why can’t I connect with anyone!?” Well, because drank the bullshit kool-aid of Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and Donald Trump and jumped fully onboard with frat-bro culture.
And let me just as a relatively young white male — you have no idea. You have no idea how hard it is for women right now all the same. After all, does the reversal of Roe really impact you or me the same way? Of course it doesn’t. And another thing: All the economic woes facing men are also facing women just the same, I hope you understand.
One key factor is changing whom they idolize. Time to start idolizing the likes of Tim Walz and not Andrew fucking Tate.
I said something irrelevant, mean-spirited, or hurtful and now the downvotes only reenforce my correctness!
How is what he says irrelevant? Perhaps it shows some bitterness. But what he says is overall correct. Just look at the stats, not just in the USA. PISA results
girls outperformed boys in reading by almost 30 score points, on average across OECD countries (Figure II.7.1). While girls outperformed boys in reading in every participating country
I have seen a bunch of special programs for woman (like to get them into STEM) over the years. But not even one for men. And special help for the boys quoted above? Nope.
This is not a men vs women things, it’s about everyone getting the help etc. they need, regardless of who they are. Rich, poor, male, female: Should all not matter.
“The Earth’s atmosphere is approximately 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen” is both a true statement, and utterly irrelevant to the subject at hand.
The topic was that society’s hostility towards women have made younger women voters identify as liberal at higher rates than previously, not how men are being oppressed/repressed/left behind/failed/whatever verb you want to use here. There are appropriate places to have that discussion; this topic isn’t one of them.
You are correct, I was missing that context.
Well you don’t see the programs to get men into the sciences because those were like societal shifts. For example, rewarding young male students who tried different things versus penalizing female students that engaged in outside the box thinking. For a more recent concrete example one can look to the field of economics. Women in economics actually face measured animus simply for their status as female.
You say you want everyone getting the help, but what I hear is a privileged class watching another class get more equal treatment or rights as somehow bringing you down.
I guess boys better start stepping up to the plate. Maybe they should smile more and talk in class.
There are special programs for both boys and girls. There just aren’t any boys-only programs.
Tbf, where I live, they’re few, far between, and not that great.
You know how programs for women and girls got started?
Women started them.
Sure, I’m talking about programs, in general. There’s money where I am, but in general, people who have it are mostly investing in Fendi bags, big trucks, private education. There are exceptions, they are even fewer and far between. We did manage to put in a Little Free Library, and I’m currently looking for a space to plan a community garden. It will take time, but the goal is creating things most of us can participate in and enjoy. I’d wanted to plan free transportation for our community, but the insurance was more than we could afford, without large, ongoing private donations. But I’m ok with smaller things that bring our community out to mingle with each other.
FYI, you need to check your little free library regularly. They end up being homes to all kind of evangelical religious shit.
The only way society is failing men is by letting them get indoctrinated as boys into inceldom and alt right beliefs by social media weirdos.
You’ve been fed a picture of a past that you did not live in, where men apparently were much better off. You should question that picture, make sure somebody isn’t just blowing smoke up your ass, whether because of rose-colored glasses or something more malicious.
WW1, the Great Depression, the Dust Bowl, WW2, Vietnam… it’s hasn’t always been that great for a man. These are real things, they all happened in addition to any storybook pictures you might have in your head. Remember what our forefathers had to go through to get us here, it wasn’t all good things. It’s only fair then that we, too, have our hard times that we must face. We don’t need to tear other people down to overcome them.
Go back to 4chan.
No one’s burying their head in the sand. They’re reacting to the fact that it sounds here like you are resenting women for talking about their own oppression. It’s not zero sum my friend. We know patriarchy hates men too. This specific article just wasn’t really about that. There are other places on Lemmy that are talking more specifically about the issues you raise here, though.
It is zero sum the left does not care and the right is simply unacceptable. Maybe give parents some credit for aborting boys or something. World only needs a few of us.
men aren’t being left behind. they just don’t have as much control over people that they have no business controlling. this isn’t the persecution you think it is.
You post about hot dogs in a hamburger thread, don’t you?
I think these are delicious!
FoodPorn downvoted me though…
Do we have a c/shittyfoodporn? Because this could do numbers there.
I took a picture of it because I thought it looked so good people would love it, and want to see how delicious it looked. Instead I got asked to seek help, and called mentally deranged.
Dude, I get this so much.
I love making food. I think it’s delicious and maybe my photography skills aren’t amazing but I will share it anyways.
Nope! Not allowed unless you make nearly fake looking food with a studio set up that makes me bet it’s cold before they even take a bite and throw it away.
I got so much hate for posting a picture of god damn poutine that I truly think the food snobs deserve to starve.
Did you seek help?
In what way, in your opinion, does society fail young men harder than it fails young people in general?
Steven Miller made it a point to target young men and push them into the Alt right.
It’s a story as old as time; young men tend to enjoy fraternities/clubs where they can hang with their bros.
Are men worse off, or are women better off in comparison?
Men are worse off today than previous generations
Men and women (in general) live longer and are more prosperous lives than they have for most of history. Yes, I know, rent is unaffordable. There are healthcare problems. Etc.
Crime is still historically low and lifespans are still historically high.
I’d say that makes men better off today.
Who could ever know why men aren’t becoming as progressive as women, guess we will never know! Every refusal to acknowledge the issue, is cause for it to grow bigger.
Yes, I too could act like a dick and say ‘I have an issue!’
Yes, I too could respond to people saying that I’m being unreasonable by saying ‘it’s your fault!’
No, at no point am I doing anything but sabotaging myself because I feel entitled to being treated more leniently than everyone else.
Terrorism isn’t cool.
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That’s just not true, but I do see where the perception comes from. I am gen-X and raised well within peak chauvinism and toxic masculinity. Along the way, nation-wide sensibilities started to change and we are all better for it. The problem is that as we tried to right the wrongs, we as a society forgot to change the way we raised young boys. We began to raise our girls to be independent, demand respect and equality (all great things), but we forgot to stop raising our boys in a way that ties their self worth to sexual prowess, maximum aggression, ability to provide for a family, and all the other metrics that only apply to the old family centric, male dominated structures. Yes, we started to raise boys better now but change is slow and all those other boys now find themselves ill prepared and with a strong sense of entitlement to a world and way of life that simply doesn’t exist. Some boys/men adjust, but others are just throwing a tantrum. To those “men” all I can do is respond like someone raised in the old ways. “Stop being a fucking little whining removed, man the fuck up, and adapt! Show me that you aren’t worthless or shut the fuck up. Fucking baby.”
Being in the Bible Belt, I could see what you were saying, until the last bit.
