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I’m sure for Windows Pro this isn’t accurate. There’s no way a business could legally permit this, it’s a massive risk.
It’s probably just with Windows Home, and I’m sure O&O Shutup already handles it.
A Pro license is worth it just for Group Policy, which provides control over such things.
Do you know this for a fact or are you speculating?
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I’m in healthcare, and it would be such a huge HIPAA risk if this was rolled out to our users. I’m interested to see what the company will do with this new information. We’re Enterprise edition so I’d assume they have ultimate control over it being on our computers.
I can confirm that the west coast state governments are being extremely explicit about how, if this can’t be removed from LTSC/Enterprise, M$ will open themselves up for so many lawsuits that the sun will be blotted out.
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If the code is there it can be exploited, and that’s a big ol’ honking attack vector.
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I just purchase multiple used laptops. The multimedia creation one can stay W10 until the end of days.
will be replaced with Linux
Maybe one day if Microsoft didn’t back down but in the interim they would simply put a hard block on updating.
But what actually end up happening is they would just be pressured to upgrade to Enterprise where you are permitted to have more control over windows.
Going by the phrasing I’d say educated guess. I for one agree, it sounds like a massive liability when you have e.g. data protection laws to think about
A Pro license is worth it just for Group Policy, which provides control over such things.
I’m currently able to buy Pro Win 11 licenses at a very expensive $7 LMAO
I used to say just pirate windows, but being cheaper than lunch meh. On top of that these licenses are just resold volume licenses so MS doesn’t even get the money directly from me so ehhhh
I don’t know any business that uses Windows 11.
You must not know a lot of businesses then. My company is on Win11 and most admin friends I’ve talked fo their company is on Win11
Oh to live in a world where this is true, but it is not. It is demonstrably not.
Why don’t they just make a proper OS without all that shit.
Because it’s not about making a proper OS. The shit is the point.
No, the point is to make a shit OS that the average users have to use, but the proper OS will be restricted to Enterprise and only configurable by Intune.
I’ve been saying it for years and years, ever since they took group policy out of the Home version: the point is to make admin access to your operating system a premium feature that is only affordable to businesses.
You know the Recommended section of the Windows 11 start menu? The one that cannot be removed?
You actually can remove that, if and only if you have an Enterprise version. The ability to remove that is not present in any other versions.
That’s the end game, right there.
Had a discussion with a coworker regarding this, and about how seemingly unnecessarily adversarial MS has become with its users. At first you could choose to only have a local account. Then you had to use a magic key sequence and a command to only use a local account. And I think now even that possibility has been removed? And then there’s the forced default of us8ng one drive, copilot, cortana, and a bunch of other shit.
And as someone else said: The shit is the point. We concluded that MS realized that it’s lagging behind other companies such as Google and Apple when it comes to providing an ecosystem that the user grows dependant on.
And while this strategy could have worked, MS has failed to take three important factors into account:
- Most of their users don’t care about an ecosystem. They just want to check their mail and run an installed program or two.
- Many of their users are used to having their PC NOT be a part of an ecosystem.
- MS ecosystem is absolute dogshit. The o365 is somewhat decent if you’rea corporate user, but anything else provided by Microsoft has a better 3rd party alternative if the user wants it at all.
The OS is not the product anymore. It’s just an attempt at getting you to use their other stuff so that they can lock you in. Why do you think you can now use unlicensed windows with no real downsides? 15 years ago your windows install would refuse to do the tiniest thing without a license, because back then, sell8ng licenses was the business plan. Now they’re selling services so that they can start selling you.
I wish I could discuss things like this at work in a rational way. When I mentioned the Recall feature early on, he told me that sounded “like some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory stuff”.
I sent him a link to a news article that dumbed it down for him. Don’t know if he read it. Don’t care. But the point is, he is who MS is pandering to - the lowest common denominator, basically. The one who screws it all up for the rest of us and the reason we can’t have nice things.
It sounds like tinfoil hat shit, because it’s just that shitty.
anything else provided by Microsoft has a better 3rd party alternative if the user wants it at all.
Imo this is what has held microsoft back. They never really focused on the user market. All their software is pay-for-me bullshit offering promo prices for user tier education subscriptions that never retain users. Once you’re out of school you’re gonna cancel office sub, pirate it, or simply use google docs because everyone can use it without paying. Office is for businesses only.
Google lets you use their version of office without asking for any money. They give you storage that integrates with it and doesn’t nag you to subscribe or purchase a license to do things and they don’t nag you to use it. Their email is actually good, has good spam protection. You can use google mail for small businesses without issue too whereas hotmail or outlook.com look sketchy by comparison.
Microsoft has had so many missteps in their headlong charge believing they are the only game in town. Android has a bigger market share and a lot of people just use their phone as a computer today on a global scale.
In the US, Apple keeps gaining market share. iOS is the #1 operating system here but fairly neck and neck with windows. MacOS is a little under half of Windows too, so combined Apple is a big majority OS wise. Apple isn’t charging for updates on any of it’s OSes, unlike all of microsoft’s. The mobile hardware division makes way more money than laptops and desktops.
On a long enough of a timeline it seems inevitable that microsoft’s OS marketshare dominance will evaporate. It looks like only MacOS is here today as a realistic alternative since Linux is a steaming hot mess for end user computing.
I would love to see a fly-on-the-wall, step by step, accurate documentary of exactly the series of meetings and communications that lead to these kinds of decisions.
Imo this is what has held microsoft back. They never really focused on the user market. All their software is pay-for-me bullshit offering promo prices for user tier education subscriptions that never retain users. Once you’re out of school you’re gonna cancel office sub, pirate it, or simply use google docs because everyone can use it without paying. Office is for businesses only.
Feels like you missed the point.
Where do those users that graduate go? To work for a business. Microsoft gave them free software so they would become familiar with it when they then move into the business world. They don’t care if they use them outside of school or work, because they make money hand over fist with their business licensing.
outlook.com look sketchy by comparison.
In what world is this true?
Moreover most of the things that you just said about Gmail are true about the free tier for outlook.com. I don’t like having to say good things about Microsoft or Google but in this case you’re definitely wrong.
People are going to use Gmail because they’ve got to make a Google account for Android and YouTube anyway, and no one really cares enough about their iCloud email to use that. Moreover Chrome is still king, and it integrates there (whereas Outlook integrates with Edge).
Microsoft also cares very little what average users are using because they are making money from businesses primarily. Outlook is used the world over, just with custom domains.
I said outlook but I meant hotmail which was the only option until ~2012 for free users, maybe live.com was an alternative too? Gmail was around in 2004. Regardless though i’d say hotmail.com vs outlook.com is the same. A small business using outlook.com looks on par with comcast.com or verizon.com for email. It looks extremely amateur.
Microsoft hosted exchange is not outlook.com to me. By the time you’re big enough to sign up for m365 or just an exchange online plan and get it configured properly you’re probably big enough to also have a custom domain name… and that’s a real low bar.
Microsoft also cares very little what average users are using because they are making money from businesses primarily.
Yep, like oracle. Focus is just on business which misses the great majority of why competitors are successful. Google workspace sucks but makes money because people are familiar with it.
It’s more simple than that. You can only put so much bloat between a user and a command line.
They do and it’s hard to acquire legitimately. Windows 11 IoT LTSC. Definitely don’t waste your time looking for it in massgravedotdev.
MS expects return of investment for new Windows features. Don’t ask me why.
Imagine if they invested $0 in this new feature. They could’ve had an infinite ROI.
Man I’d really like to keep a windows machine around for just for easy gaming but at this point it’s too much of a liability.
Not that big of a problem of all you do with it is gaming.
Say you’re entering your cc info for an in-game item or a store. Does recall have a way to identify that as sensitive data?
Good point. The Epic store does fuck up often enough that I keep having to reenter my credit card info.
Supposedly, if you’re entering it on Edge. And only on Edge.
Microsoft, developers of the only browser that is safe from Microsoft malware
Internet Explorer blocked global key hooks when browsing HTTPS pages. So, safe from not only Microsoft malware, but anything that deviates from Microsoft’s overall vision of what Windows should be :)
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For now… But they like to just turn shit on willy nilly… They’ve done it with onedrive before (and promptly deleted the local copies of files). Even when they don’t force it on during an update, they have a ton of ridiculous pop-ups telling you that you should turn it on and people click them by accident. I know I don’t trust them to keep it turned off.
Microsoft has zero qualms about randomly changing settings on my sole Windows box.
Sorry, we no longer support PCs without onboard power generation and articulating limbs.
Don’t worry though. The limbs don’t actually move. The computer will just sit still. You can disable movement and manipulation of the physical world by opting out of movement.
If you need Windows do yourself a favor and during the installation process choose a European country when it asks what language pack your want to use. I always used English (UK) even though I don’t live in the UK and never had to deal with the bullshit people keep talking about.
What happens if you change it to the US after installation?
No need to, keep it as is and adjust your regional settings to your liking.
They said the same shit about Edge, I’m still able to rip edge out kicking and screaming and SURPRISE nothing of value is ever lost lol
To be fair, Edge turned out be wildly successful, even surpassing iexplorer, when it comes to downloading other browsers.
and also checking if the error you’re getting is your browser or the website itself!
You had me in the first half, I’m not going to lie.
I’ll take HIPPA violations for 1000.
HIPAA* violations are going to be for a lot more than $1000.
Lol, most hospitals I go into are still on Windows 7 with some stuff still running XP.
Also, most workstations are thin clients
I highly doubt that. Hospitals are required to be on a supported os at this point. Running xp or 7 is literally a HIPPA violation and would cost them millions or more.
When did that happen? I know last year the hospital I was in had XP on a bunch of shit.
Any software no longer supported is in direct violation of HIPPA laws. For ex, win 7 eol - https://www.hipaajournal.com/deadline-for-upgrading-windows-7-devices-is-fast-approaching/
The only route for them is to pay for extended patching per system which can also get very expensive.
You’re not wrong about the requirements but that’s not what’s actually happening.
Either they are paying to get esu patching past eol or they are on newer oses. The cost of HIPPA infractions like that is astronomical and impossible to avoid. If you know for a fact you saw an eol os, they are paying per year per device for extended patching.
Can’t wait to see all the hilarious fuck-ups this bullshit will cause.
Incidentally I just installed a new laptop that came with windows yesterday and damn, windows 11 sucks.
First you have to find a workaround to install without a MS account, then the default Bing search tells you to install Opera when you search for Firefox, I can’t find any settings (everything is a regedit hack now) and then I found a debloat script that claims it disabled Recall. So yeah it can be disabled (for now).
Take advantage of the terminal brother you won’t regret it
And on top of all this the UI feels sluggish. I still have Win11 on my laptop, as it came installed with it and I just partitioned some of the drive for linux. Was sometimes easier do do stuff on Win for Uni, esp. with very specialized software. Everytime I logged in to Win I wanted to kill the UI.
What are the chances that I, a not particularly tech savvy person, go to download mint and end up bricking my computer?
Honestly, my computer is an absolute bottom of the barrel $200 Dell laptop right now, so it wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but I’d hate to fuck it up, get a better computer, and fuck that up too.
If you’re capable of booting from a flash drive you’re capable of installing Mint.
If you want to keep your Windows environment around for emergencies, you might need to learn a little bit about how to partition a disk, which is about 15 minutes of learning and 5 minutes of doing. Or if you have a second hard drive installed that you want to devote to Linux you don’t even need to do the partitioning.
What are the chances that I, a not particularly tech savvy person, go to download mint and end up bricking my computer?
Very low. You’ll download Mint and set it up on a USB drive, then boot that USB drive and be able to run it live BEFORE you make any permanent changes to your computer.
Its pretty straightforward and completely covered in the official Installation Documentation.
Everyone here is saying it’s easy but nobody is mention that if you have any sort of unforeseen problem it can be a huge headache to fix. For example, let’s say your touchpad doesn’t work correctly. Resolving driver issues with Linux can very easily overwhelm anyone who isn’t tech-savvy and now you’ve put yourself in a situation where you want to reinstall Windows and have to figure that out next.
Definitely look into using Rufus to create a flash drive with Mint, let your laptop boot from it, and then just demo it for a few weeks. It’ll run slower than actually installing it to your computer but at least you’ll get a sense for if you actually want to pull the trigger or not (and if you don’t, unplug the drive and you’re back to booting your Windows environment with no harm done.)
Also on a quick note(I am saying that because that is what a lot of people hate on linux), download and try libre office before you change to see what you lose if you switch to libre office and if libre office did not work out for you, try only office and WPS office(both are available on linux) to see what is the best for you before you switch.
I personally use WPS office on linux with internet access turned off for it.
If you can follow the instructions on the install site, you should be fine (especially if you don’t try to dual boot): https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/burn.html
Fellow non-techy here. I’ve been on Linux for years, only leaving Windows for one specific program (that I finally found a way of using on Linux). It’s easy. Obviously the techy people can explain any risks better, but if you want to dual boot, or even nuke windows, it’s super easy. Etch it to a flash drive, there are a million YouTube videos on how, and boot from the USB. There’s a GUI wizard that walks you through everything. Mint is great, and the UI is familiar to windows users. I prefer Fedora, because I wanted a change from Windows, and it’s fun and intuitive to use GNOME for me. The Linux of today isn’t difficult to use. In fact, unless you go with something like Gentoo, you’ll probably never have to open terminal if all you do is web based stuff. It’s pretty freaking sweet. If you go with anything that uses GNOME as the DE look up extensions. They make it better and more customizable.
Biggest thing, just back everything up you might want to keep. I got nextcloud through hertzner. 15 bucks a month for 5 TB of storage. Backed up both laptops, my phone, my tablet, and have my brother, my mom, my sister in law and my friend on there, too. It’s worth doing if you’re concerned about losing important documents or photos
You already got some good replies, but I still have something to add:
It is extremely unlikely you will permanently brick your laptop. The realistically worst thing to happen is that you end up without any working OS, be it Windows or Linux. If you can get help you will be able to install Windows again (not that hard though to do by yourself).
Second thing is that Linux installers usually come with a live environment. That means that your windows installation is absolutely safe while Mint runs from your USB. You can then do some browsing or play around with Mint before deciding to install it permanently.
I’d recommend keeping all your important files on a separate disk/partition. It makes it easier and quicker for back ups and system restoration.
So even if you fuck up bad (which IMO is pretty hard to do), you can just nuke the OS and your personal files are fine.
Its very unlikely you would brick the computer in the sense of not being repairable. Most likely mistake would be accidentally wiping everything that’s on the laptop currently. As always, backup your important files to an external device first just in case.
Not very large, download it, put it on usb with rufus(choose the right Disk, not you C:, ) Start from USB and test without making changes, if the laptop is super New stuff may not work yet on Mint
It’s pretty unlikely these days. You can try it on a bootable usb stick first, to make sure the hardware is ok with it. Ubuntu has more support for things like non-free drivers and such.
There isn’t that big of a risk that it breaks completely. If the installation isn’t to your liking you can still go and reinstall windows
For the best outcome, buy 2 USB sticks and then burn windows enterprise iot From massgrave on one of them and linux mint on the other( I recommend Opensuse tumbleweed instead, but you are free to choose), this way even if your linux installation got fucked up, you could still install windows again and resume your work.
Techy person, you’d really have to fuck up that install bad to brick your computer. Like, I think the worst you could do might just be breaking your install drive and that would probaby just be regular hardware failure.
I switched to Linux (mint). It kind of sucked getting it set up but at least I don’t have to deal with Microsoft much anymore.
I’ll probably be doing the same. I expect a clean computer to work moderately well, but I’m dreading setting up a dual boot so I can spend some time transitioning, especially trying to keep track of where games are installed.
If you use mint and it won’t boot from the live USB stick a second time, you may have to rename a file on the USB drive.
If it hangs on the last step of the installer, I don’t know how to fix that but the previous LTS version of mint worked fine.
Those were the two biggest hurdles I faced. Good luck.
Speaking as someone who has recently gone through this headache: if you’re fortunate enough to have your games on their own partition, you will probably want to migrate said partition over to a Linux filesystem (ext4, btrfs, etc.) sooner rather than later. Particularly for Steam games - it’s possible to mount NTFS partitions on Linux and you might even be able to get the partition to mount as read/write somewhat reliably, but getting Steam on Linux to parse those directories and read the installed games is… … well, it isn’t worth it, frankly. Easier to just bite the bullet and be done with it.
That was the most difficult part of transitioning to Linux for me, though. Most everything else either worked out of the box or was a breeze to set up. Even the printer - go figure. Anyway. You got this!
I had brought in a disk from another old PC of mine that was an NTFS formatted drive but no Windows on it. It worked OK for games. It seemed to work a lot better than what people complained about. I wonder if it was because there was no boot partition or any oddness with how NTFS works with hibernation on system partitions.
Permissions weren’t an issue because I just mounted the NTFS partitions with the user option.
I did eventually copy it over to a btrfs partition though for dedupe and snapshots like everything else.
I use the N version of windows, which is what they sell in the eu. I doubt copilot will ever be forcefully installed on my pc.
It’s crazy that no one actually research this at all before getting outraged.
Recall has always been exclusive to “Copilot+ PCs” which are ARM computers with a Snapdragon X series processor.
This won’t affect normal computers at all.
System requirements for Recall
Your PC needs the following minimum system requirements for Recall:
A Copilot+ PC 16 GB RAM 8 logical processors 256 GB storage capacity To enable Recall, you’ll need at least 50 GB of storage space free Saving screenshots automatically pauses once the device has less than 25 GB of storage spaceBeyond that, this is all speculation based off a single bugfix where they got rid of the ability to uninstall Copilot from the Features menu.
Huge assumptions that it won’t be able to be disabled in plenty of other ways. Legally they cannot force this enabled on all devices due to the wide variety of information protection laws the world over.
Ah so it’s totally okay for them to spy on people with particular types of computers. So obvious!
I never said that.
I don’t like it anymore that anyone else. But people in this thread are acting like recall will be forced upon absolutely everyone. When in reality it’s just a very specific type of rare computer that it’s available for.
For now.
This is a long play, in 5 - 10 years just about all computers will have it by default.
The only computers without this “feature” will be running the pro / business versions.
Part of the trouble is that 5-10 years seems like the distant future to young people.
At my age that feels like a few months
It is a pretty long time.
The average lifespan is around 80 years and ⅛ of your entire life is still quite a long time. And that obviously only applies if you are 80. If you are under that it’s even more.
While this is true, in the life of a company, it is not that long.
In reality the “feature” will be rolling out at an increasing rate, the numbers will be growing.
I’m not saying in 5 - 10 years the roll out will start, it already has! In 5 - 10 years it will be default on ALL (windows) computers.
Why should we really care about what software future generations will use?
We have better things to worry about.
Your age, please?
I’m 41
If you don’t think ¼ of your life is a quite long time you are delusional.
Does anybody actually expect this not to become standard over time?
This is just divide and conquer.
Maybe, but there is nothing actually indicating that will happen so stop acting like it’s happening tomorrow.
Doesn’t matter if it’s only forced on one user. It’s still a fucked up feature that shouldn’t be allowed. Interesting to know it’s limited in scope though
Of course it matters when everyone here is seemingly freaked out that all Win 11 PCs will be forced too us recall, when that is very very far from the case.
It’s obvious that it’s a fucked up feature but that’s not my point.
Why would they stop at the first step? This is a great indication that switching to Linux ASAP is a good move. Be mad about it I guess
Just fill up your disk, problem solved!! \s
Modders enabled Recall on non compliant ARM PCs with no AI hardware whatsoever.
That’s possible but how is that relevant?
I never said that recall isn’t possible without “AI hardware”, just that Microsoft doesn’t support it. I.E. If you have a normal PC and don’t actively go out of your way to enable it, it won’t be enabled.
Yet.
Surely there’s GDPR and other issues here. How are they allowed do this with very sensitive, private data on machines.
The data never leaves the computer. Also this only applies to Copilot+ PCs which only the Snapdragon Elite is. No word if it will come to x86
where meme?
The way I see it is someone will figure out a registry tweak to disable or cripple it.
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For how long?
October is when it gets reenabled
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First Windows product?
