Most of Mozilla’s money of course comes from Google to make them the default search engine on Firefox. And of course its a way for Google to ensure there’s at least one alternative browser engine. Reading about how Texeira was recently fired and how executives have been pushing for AI features for a long time, Mozilla certainly loves chasing trends and then forgetting them, like how Google kills lots of products. It seems like the company can’t stand on its own two feet without Google’s funding and is poorly run.
What happened to Mozilla over the years? How much effort did they put in to trying to be a successful tech company? because it hasn’t been until the past few that I really started following Firefox and Mozilla news.
I wonder if Mozilla could’ve been Proton, years before Proton AG existed, making their own comprehensive suite of privacy-friendly tools, since Mozilla makes privacy their brand. And they were late to the smartphone game with Firefox OS. If they were smart, they would’ve ensured their long term survival with an actual business, to continue funding development of their privacy and FOSS software like Firefox, without large funding sources like Google.
The only reason Mozilla still exists is because Google needs them to so Chrome can’t be a complete monopoly.
Their priorities have always been… questionnable. Like, we got FirefoxOS all while Firefox was basically unusable on Android and Chrome rapidly eating their lunch, PWA support was abandonned then removed, which was the whole idea behind FirefoxOS… Then they started Servo, the rewrite of the rendering in Rust only to cancel it midway.
But hey they acquired an ad company, as if people don’t use Firefox so uBlock keeps working. And Pocket, and VPNs and a whole bunch of other crapware nobody wants from Mozilla. It’s like they go out of their way to be the second option.
Mozilla doesn’t operate a VPN, they are just a reseller for a branded Mullvad version. For them it’s merely an extra income stream with next to no maintenance, so that is something I can approve of. Mullvad is pretty amazing (though cheaper than through Mozilla).
Well, there’s a custom app, and their own login and automatic monthly billing. It’ll depend on the person on whether that’s useful, but it’s not next-to-no maintenance. Though for sure way less than maintaining custom VPN infra.
Servo is an active project still just not owned by Mozilla.
Also, Servo was originally more or less a testbed for new rendering pathway (webrender) which, when ready, was then integrated into Firefox.
The only reason Mozilla still exists is because Google needs them to so Chrome can’t be a complete monopoly.
Yep this is exactly what I meant. Maybe I should’ve made that clear.
Well… I’d rather say It’s the only reason why we still care about Mozilla and put up with their crap :)
I wonder if Mozilla could’ve been Proton
I wonder if Proton will someday in the future add a browser to the tools they offer.
If they do, it’s unlikely they’ll build one from scratch. It’s still gonna be either a Chrome or Firefox fork.
Let’s hope it won’t be a chromium browser.
No way in hell would Proton make a Chromium-based browser, the only way that would not be hypocritical is if they fully open sourced it (you could compile it yourself), and maintained their own fork completely devoid of Google tracking and telemetry.
Well, Chromium is fully open source and I think largely devoid of Google tracking, and there is prior art with ungoogled Chromium for the rest of it. So a Proton “fork” would basically just be a rebranding of that project.
That said, if they do make a browser, I hope it’s a Firefox variant instead of a Chromium one (or even better, Servo).
Chromium does have some Google things in it. Like what happened with the built-in extension giving Google websites special permission to read the hardware info of your computer.
I’m in no way affiliated with zen browser, but if you’re looking for a privacy / Firefox (Gecko) based browser with a nice aesthetic check it out.
That’s most likely the truth. Or perhaps… a servo or ladybird fork by the time were there? 😳
or ladybird if that is in a usable state by then
Right now I don’t think Proton would do much better than existing options. There are browsers on different ends of the privacy to convenience spectrum (and these are all Gecko based):
- Firefox: decent privacy by default without changing any settings
- Librewolf: Firefox but with hardened settings for privacy
- Mullvad Browser: Almost the same as Tor but not on the Tor network, which is admittedly slow
- Tor: Uses the Tor Network and by default very hardened for Privacy but makes lots of convenience and QoL tradeoffs, including letterboxing to common browser resolutions.
Have you heard of the Ladybird browser. It is a project trying to build a browser from scratch. They are very cool.
Gecko is the main reason Mozilla is important.
I’d say Proton has become Mozilla more than the other way around, now that they’re also a non-profit. Mozilla does have its own set of privacy-related tools (Firefox Relay, Mozilla Monitor, Mozilla VPN, …), but not all of them have been successful, and some have been discontinued (e.g. the password manager). All of those were/are certainly attempts to reduce the dependence on Google money.
Wasnt there an announcement a few weeks ago that they are deprioritising relay and the VPN in favour of AI?
The announcement was that they were deprioritizing all non-browser projects, iirc.
I’m not sure if those specifically were in favour of AI, but yes, they did get less investment. Another sign that they’re struggling to bring in enough money with other projects.
(I do wonder, given how many of Proton’s projects have launched relatively recently, how many of those projects bring in enough money to offset their own costs. Possibly we’re in for a couple of similar announcements from Proton at some point? Let’s hope not.)
Does anyone else wonder where all this recent FUD about Firefox’s funding is actually coming from? No offense meant, but this really doesn’t seem natural to me.
Firefox’s funding has been this way for well over a decade. Why does it only suddenly matter now, when Google is under a lot of fire politically and making a lot of anti-consumer moves in rapid succession?
Maybe there’s a ton of people who truly weren’t aware of this, but I really have to ask what the motivation is behind the tech news outlets suddenly talking about this all again. It’s not new information. It really doesn’t qualify as news.
Firefox has been more or less doing fine for multiple decades now, regardless of the main source of their finances. While I don’t agree with their continued fad chasing, I have no concerns about the longevity or trustworthyness of their core “product”, the browser. I’m even less concerned when I consider the large, diverse, and healthy community of forks surrounding it.
Edit:
More to the topic: Gecko is why Firefox is important. More specifically, the fact that it uses a unique underlying engine. Doesn’t matter what they call it, just that there is an open source web browser engine that exists at feature parity with commericial and closed source browsers.
More edit:
As far as Mozilla’s decisions making sense in terms as a business, I really could care less. To me, Mozilla’s existence is to ensure continued adequate funding for Firefox development and maintenance.
Any further pursuits in the realm of things that would be good for open source software and privacy are important but secondary to keeping their primary product, the browser, alive.
It’s also vitally important to note that Google has a basic business contract in which they pay Mozilla to make Google the default search engine in Firefox. That is it. They don’t own Mozilla or Firefox, have any direct seat on the board, or have any postion with them involving decision making or influencing. No one knows what happens behind closed doors, but there has never been any quantifiable reason to believe that Google is pulling Firefox’s strings.
The anti-trust cases against google are why this is being brought up again. Google isnt propping up Mozilla out of altruism or a desire to, I dunno, advertise; they’re doing it so that in court they can point at Mozilla and say, “look! Competitors!”. Its the exact same reason Microsoft bailed out Apple in the 00s. Because without Mozilla, Google is unquestionably a monopoly.
Now, they are anyway. But by keeping Mozilla alive they can pretend in court that they have competitors and that they aren’t engaging in monopolistic practices, which they absolutely are.
Honestly your comment is kind of why they pay the money. “Google doesn’t have a seat at Mozilla, what’s the big deal?”. The big deal is that Google smothers competition and is pretending in court that they aren’t.
like how Google kills lots of products
Mozilla also loves killing things. https://killedbymozilla.com/
Wow its that bad?
Like with Google: Most of it for me personally no, some things, yes.
It’s also worth noting that almost all of this stuff was open-source. If you wanted to, you could still use most of it, continue development on it (and in some cases, such as FirefoxOS, its development is continuing without Mozilla’s involvement). Not so with stuff killed by Google.
It’s pretty much the only reason I use it. If Gecko disappeared, I’d probably go to Brave, because they’re the next most interesting privacy-oriented browser. But I doubt that’ll happen because Tor Browser still uses it, so there’s a very good chance someone else would take over Gecko development if Mozilla stopped.
Mozilla also has a VPN, so that should provide some revenue. Might not be enough to let go of Google’s support, but at least it’s something.
Mozilla doesn’t have a VPN. It’s literally Mullvad servers, with Mozilla’s branding on top. Mozilla doesn’t deal with any of the actual server stuff; It’s all handled by Mullvad.
FWIW, it’s a nice little drop shipping side hustle for Mozilla. They get to skim off the top of every Mozilla VPN sale, while doing none of the actual server maintenance and having no ongoing costs (hosting, electricity, etc) related to the VPN servers. But to be clear, you can get the exact same service (for a little cheaper because Mozilla isn’t skimming off the top) directly from Mullvad.
Paying for a VPN through Mozilla is like paying for a Spotify subscription through Apple’s App Store; You get the exact same service as if you had gone straight to Spotify’s site, but with an added convenience fee tacked on by Apple.
Technically you can get it for the same price as direct from Mullvad if you buy the annual plan, but your point is still valid.
Mullvad is a great VPN though, if Mozilla branding gets more people to use it instead of any of the scummy ones that are everywhere these days, it’s a good thing for privacy, the open web, etc. - the causes Mozilla is supposed to represent. It’s way better aligned with their goals than a lot of the other non-browser stuff they’ve been doing. I’d rather see them profit from that than from nonsense like ‘sponsored stories’ on the homepage.
Drop shipping is a great analogy though - branding and marketing is the only thing Mozilla is bringing to the table as far as I’m aware.
It is just Mullvad
