I’ve been speaking with other more informed communists and they’ve told me that none actually exist. Is this true?

China, Laos, and Vietnam: now notoriously capitalists. Workers work 12+ hours with no protection in horrible factory conditions. Suicide rates are so high that suicide nets are installed. The air is so polluted millions die from lung cancer, especially factory workers w/out basic masks. Corporations dominate

North Korea: Undemocratically ruled by the Kim dynasty. Jong un indulges lavishly at the expense of his citizens, ordering millions in fine wine and trips from Denis Rodman. They might be the most socialist though, as Juche seems to otherwise be democratic.

Cuba: Sanctions have taken a massive toll, but even taking that into account the country still has its own problems. They have massive food shortages and inventory probs and aren’t self sufficient after 60+ years. Why couldn’t they’ve use machinery imported from the Soviet Union to develop their agriculture and fishery? The Soviets supported them heavily. They seem to be incredibly mismanaged or corrupt

  • anarchost
    23·
    1 year ago

    How do you feel about this North Korean doctrine?

    1. We must give our all in the struggle to unify the entire society with the revolutionary ideology of the Great Leader Kim Il Sung.
    2. We must honor the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung with all our loyalty.
    3. We must make absolute the authority of the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung.
    4. We must make the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung’s revolutionary ideology our faith and make his instructions our creed.
    5. We must adhere strictly to the principle of unconditional obedience in carrying out the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung’s instructions.
    6. We must strengthen the entire party’s ideology and willpower and revolutionary unity, centering on the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung.
    7. We must learn from the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung and adopt the communist look, revolutionary work methods and people-oriented work style.
    8. We must value the political life we were given by the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung, and loyally repay his great political trust and thoughtfulness with heightened political awareness and skill.
    9. We must establish strong organizational regulations so that the entire party, nation and military move as one under the one and only leadership of the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung.
    10. We must pass down the great achievement of the revolution by the Great Leader comrade Kim Il Sung from generation to generation, inheriting and completing it to the end.
            • oscardejarjayes [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
              21·
              1 year ago

              “A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA” - then NED president Allen Weinstein
              NED’s President Carl Gershman said that the NED was created because “It would be terrible for democratic groups around the world to be seen as subsidized by the CIA.”

              It’s literally a group that does CIA stuff, without using the CIA name.

              • anarchost
                1·
                1 year ago

                You just doubled down on using Holocaust denial logic. I wonder why.

                But let me be more specific. You believe “The government did something bad once, therefore anything I can tie to the government was also done by the government.” Nazis also hate the fact the US entered World War II.

                • oscardejarjayes [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  14·
                  1 year ago

                  It’s more similar to not believing Goebbels radio broadcasts about the USSR. We don’t distrust NED, the CIA, or the State Department just because they did something bad once, but because it is both a consistent pattern of spreading misinformation and because it is their stated purpose to rile up dissident groups in US opposed countries.

          • anarchost
            1·
            1 year ago

            Okay, then link to the 10 principles yourself.

            Nazis use the same logic as you to say Hitler never ordered the Holocaust. Why are you using Nazi logic?

        • SpookyGenderCommunist [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
          22·
          1 year ago

          So, I want to engage in as good of faith possible, here.

          The content of North Korean doctrine seems particularly discomforting to people here, lol. Not sure why this is the country people feel the need to stand up for.

          It’s not about whether it’s discomforting, it’s about whether or not what you’re saying is even true. I have zero reason to believe what you posted has any basis in fact. You initially copy/pasted it with no citation.

          Now, the links you’re giving are decidedly not Korean. The DPRK puts out works of theory and the like, fairly readily. All I’m asking for is a primary source for this.

          But let’s assume it’s 100% true, for a minute.

          Even if it is, and Korean socialism does look the way that these 10 points describe, why might that be? What would drive such an insular, personality-cult driven, set of doctrine?

          Could it, perchance, be the fact that the United States set about occupying half of the Korean Peninsula? Reinstalling many of the Japanese colonial administrators the Korean people had just spent decades trying to kick out?

          Might it have something to do with the fact that the US bombed the entire peninsula so heavily, that US pilots complained that they were no more targets, and that Koreans literally began living in caves and a result?

          If you actually care about Koreans, and are unsettled by the centralization of power in the DPRK, then you ought to recognize that it’s US imperial policy that has irrevocably shaped the destiny of the Korean peninsula.

          If there’s any reason to “Stand up” for the DPRK, it’s for the exact reasons you’ve laid out. If a society is too heal, and overcome the sort of backward despotism you’ve presented, then the answer is surely to not isolate it more. To not continue to fuel the siege mentality that drives the state ideology. But rather, to work for peace and unification, so that the whole of Korea might, once again, be able to shape its own destiny.

          • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            7·
            1 year ago

            So I read through his links. There isn’t a citation to any of these interviews (a necessity for actual academic journalism) to make sure things aren’t being taken out of context. The first document even says that “North Korean experts disagree with these things because they view North Korea through the lens of their propaganda.” And even then there are only three uncited interviews, one which is obviously an absolutely outrageous lie that breaking the frame of a photo of Kim Jon Il while polishing it is grounds for the execution of an entire family.

            For context, the atrocities of the Pinochet regime are backed up by literally hundreds of recorded, cited interviews, some even by guards who participated in the violence admitting their culpability years later (though usually with the excuse that they weren’t the ones committing the mass rape, etc.).

            This is nothing. This is unsubstantial.

          • anarchost
            2·
            1 year ago

            “North Korea has shitty policies because it has been isolated from the rest of the world,” is a statement that I agree wholeheartedly with, and yes it should be opened to things like international trade. The same holds true for Cuba, etc.

        • Catradora_Stalinism [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          https://web.archive.org/web/20170906180510/http://www.internationallawbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Ten-Great-Principles-of-the-Establishment-of-the-Unitary-ideology.pdf

          https://www.ned.org/2018-democracy-award/2018-democracy-award-honoree-citizens-alliance-for-north-korean-human-rights-nkhr/

          you realize that second link is from an article funded by the fucking NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY

          you literally referenced the CIA front for false flag operations and fake organizations

          Im fucking giddy are you this stupid on accident or born with a badge?

          THE FUCKING NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY

          eheheheheheheheeeeeeeeeee oh my god this is so fuckin easy

            • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
              1·
              1 year ago

              Rightful criticism of a known CIA front org is the same thing as Nazi persecution of Jewish people is one hell of a take

              Seriously, get a fuckin grip

                • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  The only difference is that they call it removed globalism, and you call it bourgeois westerners.

                  Yeah that’s kinda the fundamental crux of the inherent difference between those groups you dumb fuck lmao, do you even read what you’re typing

                  “Checking sources is Nazism actually” lmao you clueless child, get a grip and stay in school

                • Are_Euclidding_Me [e/em/eir]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  Are you denying the existence of the 10 principles?

                  Yes, I am.

                  If you are not, are you complaining about the translation?

                  Also yes.

                  So I tried to find a different translation. I spent about 10 minutes on google looking for a different translation or at the very least more context about these alleged “10 principles”. It seems like there is only one translation in existence, which I find to be very odd. The text as you’ve presented it is not long nor particularly difficult, so it shouldn’t be difficult to translate. I would assume, then, that more than one person would have produced a translation and posted it to the internet, at least if the original korean text were widely available. And if these “10 principles” were official dprk policy, surely the korean text would be easily found.

                  So why can I only find one translation? Maybe you can help me out here. Can you find another translation for me please? I’ll also accept the original text in korean if that’s easier.

                  • Are_Euclidding_Me [e/em/eir]@hexbear.netEnglish
                    1·
                    1 year ago

                    Hey @anarchost@lemm.ee, let’s keep the conversation public, buddy. I’ve copied your dm to me below:

                    That’s a great stance to take! After all, the 10 principles are so ridiculous that if they were true, you’d have to condemn them outright, correct?

                    Just give me the original text in korean or a different translation of them. Please?

      • anarchost
        24·
        1 year ago

        The content of North Korean doctrine seems particularly discomforting to people here, lol. Not sure why this is the country people feel the need to stand up for

        https://web.archive.org/web/20141022133221/http://www2.law.columbia.edu/course_00S_L9436_001/North Korea materials/10 principles of juche.html

        https://web.archive.org/web/20170906180510/http://www.internationallawbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Ten-Great-Principles-of-the-Establishment-of-the-Unitary-ideology.pdf

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      6·
      1 year ago

      I think this says very little of substance besides “our Great Leader is cool, Juche is cool, we must protect the revolution”. Oh, and supporting central organization. What do you think it says?

      5 is the only one that looks iffy to me. I guess you could say 3 too, but honestly they are a little redundant.