Mardoniush [she/her]

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Joined 4 years ago
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Cake day: July 29th, 2020

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  • Both do, Pharisees are considered to be the direct predecessor of Rabbinic Judaism, since they more successfully survived the revolts. Their key difference with other factions aside from metaphysical things like the afterlife was an acknowledgement of the “Oral Torah” instead of just the written bible, and a strong commitment to theological debate. After the destruction of the temple this was written down in Babylon, first as the Mishnah and then the Talmud.

    While Jesus paints them as his key opponent and critiques them for being overly focused on the letter rather than the spirit of the law, (the Saducees being largely beneath contempt), there’s a certain mutual respect going on as both Jesus and the Pharisees are massive, massive debate bros and have a similar class base. Some of the upper members of the Pharisees movement like Gamaliel are revered in both faiths.

    Karaite Jews are different as are Beta Israel in that they retain a few more priestly aspects though their precise historical lineage is under some debate.






  • So, firstly we are talking about first century Christians, pre 2nd/3rd Jewish revolt. The Jewish authorities still had wide religious and political power in this era.

    Jesus was the opposite of the generally conceived notion of the Messiah as a Maccebean style military leader. He died, there was a distinct lack of military conquest, and his (frankly quite limited) preaching to gentiles and Samaritans didn’t help

    Petrene/Jamesite and the Jewish section of the Johannine community were banned from synagogue, and Paul notes that Jewish authorities openly hunted and prosecuted early Christian groups. And these were the Pharisees, a middle and lower class fundamentalist movement that became modern Judaism.

    The rich, the Saducees were even more hostile, viewing them as a threat to the fragile balance of power with Rome, and having major theological differences (priestly Judaism generally denied the existence of judgement and was ambivalent to hostile about the existence of the afterlife)

    The evangelical character of early Christians didn’t help, it was the equivalent of a bunch of Mormons showing up at your high Anglican mass and claiming no really their were Jews in America and this is the true promised land. They were Annoying

    Compared to the mostly insular Essenes and the politically powerful Zealots, the Christians were easy targets to show the Romans that Jewish authorities had it all under control.

    That said, the idea all the apostles died as martyrs is laughable. Pre Nero persecutions were largely restrained and generally politically motivated.


  • I know the divisions in Lebanese society can be fairly extensive, but this seems to have outraged my (many, close) friends of Lebanese origin across the board. Is it the same there?

    Is there any chance of the politicians unifying in resistance? I know the Lebanese army could probably effectively resist an Israeli incursion if it and the various faction militias banded together.




  • Not quite so, Pilate “hands over” Jesus to the Jews to be crucified. He never sentences him and “washes his hands” of the matter, signifying the abandonment of secular authority. The Jews (here really just a faction of the Jews, particularly the Sadducees) have already admitted that they can’t kill him under the Jewish law but do so anyway. So both are guilty and the old law has been abandoned, represented by the curtain in the temple ripping open on Jesus’ death.


  • So, Matthew is speaking to Jewish Chistians and is absolutely attempting to focus the main blame on the Jewish people, partially as an attempt to fulfil prophecy and partially because the response by the Jewish elite to Christians was extremely negative, even compared to other messianic splinters of the time. Rome still gets the blame

    Luke however is speaking to the Pauline community that was one of the two main factions that became modern Christianity, and he is trying to placate the Roman Empire from persecutions while also low key advocating guillotining the rich. So the Jews make a convenient group to blame and there’s already the tradition.

    John often is thought to have the seed of future Christian antisemitism, but honestly I just think he’s a debate bro and taking potshots at whatever school he’s flamewaring with that paragraph. Love John, what a poster.








  • Just be very clear about it. When I was atheist I had Protestants (and one Muslim, who was frankly the least annoying since at least the arguments were new sometimes) do the same thing and frankly their arguments were so so shit it set back their cause by a decade.

    As others have mentioned, be clear you won’t convert and aren’t interested in apologetics, because you won’t be convinced by the same things he is, because you’re a different person

    But you would like to learn. You probably won’t get him to stop entirely but he might adopt a more organic approach where you can actually talk to them about what they believe.