- cross-posted to:
- housing_bubble_2@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- housing_bubble_2@lemmy.world
Protesters in Barcelona have sprayed visitors with water as part of a demonstration against mass tourism.
Demonstrators marching through areas popular with tourists on Saturday chanted “tourists go home” and squirted them with water pistols, while others carried signs with slogans including “Barcelona is not for sale.”
Thousands of protesters took to the streets of the city in the latest demonstration against mass tourism in Spain, which has seen similar actions in the Canary Islands and Mallorca recently, decrying the impact on living costs and quality of life for local people.
The demonstration was organised by a group of more than 100 local organizations, led by the Assemblea de Barris pel Decreixement Turístic (Neighborhood Assembly for Tourism Degrowth).
This justifies assaulting people how, exactly?
It was a peaceful protest from what I can see in the video and in the article text. By assault, are you talking about the tiny cheap water pistols the two girls were squirting?
Yes. Downplay it all you want but it’s still assault. Especially when acid attacks are not unheard of.
Words aren’t black and white things. The cashier not issuing a receipt is financial fraud but we’re talking about gum; they dodged 5 cents in taxes.
I personally haven’t heard of those one single time, but even if they were a thing every now and then, are we going to assume that anyone spraying a few ml of water might be throwing acid just bcuz? The point of these protests is to raise attention to the problem, not to harm tourists. If someone goes that “extra mile”, throw them behind bars, this instead of assuming that the thousand others might be trying to seriously injuring someone when they’re, very likely, doing something that goes away after 2 minutes in the local weather.
It is not a secret that a few cities across southern Europe very pissy about the treatment they’re getting. I’m not into victim blaming, but it is strange to think of these tourists as surprised when they got confronted with some sort of protests or message of disdain. In Portugal those are all over the place. From graffiti to protests. And sure, most of those do not involve any sort of physical touch with the tourists, however, if I was a tourist I’d be way madder at some of the protests I see over here than over taking a minuscule spray of water and those you wouldn’t qualify as “assault” only as “speech”.
You are defending assaulting strangers who have done nothing.
The internet is wild.
Keep muttering that word. Whatever.
Their Rickshaws and boats are fucking the air as well. Can I also say I’m being assaulted? I’m objectively being harmed.
Plenty of people over here are considering way less nice things that spraying water. You have some actual assault going on in places (as in, punching tourists in the face) and vandalism to drive them off, but yeah, let’s pretend that the 5ml of water are the real harm.
Knowingly going to a country suffering from overtourism? Going for AirBnbs instead of hotels? Blocking locals from being able to go to work because whatever route they pick looks scenic? Not bothering to learn like three words or whatever to be able to say hello or goodbye?
That’s a “I’m going to throw 500kg of glass in the general bin” kind of done nothing. They know they’re being asses to the locals. Is it legal? Yes. It is also legal not to recycle.
They’re dehumanizing us because “they paid” but 30 seconds of slight moisture is the real crime.
The 200€ of flights (which has plenty of negative externalities), 100€ for the AirBnb (which not only was someone’s eviction but also likely dodged taxes), 100€ for random food (which likely dodged taxes) and 100€ in some random tourist trap (which many times dodge taxes). Those crimes do not count because they were intermediated by someone else? The thousands who get trespassing tourists? The littered nature? No, those do not count; what really counts is the bloody water.
The bulk of the tourism money doesn’t come from the 90% of clueless asses filling the streets. Comes from the rich ones. But if the law was such that it only allowed the rich to come it would also be bad. So, like I asked you before, what’s the actual solution? Just pretending that nothing is happening?
And FYI, every single one of these countries has not-that-far-places that are more than pleased to see tourist activity. You have like ecovillages & such where you get to participate, appreciate nature and do rural tourism, all while enjoying the Mediterranean weather they came for. But no, people really must take the 1000000000th picture of the Sagrada Familia so that their travel-ego fills up. And yet you think that we should have empathy over that? Housing and jobs disappearing because random twats want to take pictures. Oh noes, the moisture. Right…
I’m not muttering it. It’s literally assault.
“Knowingly going to a country suffering from over tourism” oh, please. None of those consequences you listed are any individual tourist’s fault. If the government has failed to regulate these things that’s on them.
In any case, do the protestors know all of the people they assaulted individually? I somehow doubt it.
Dress it up however you want, you are advocating for indiscriminate xenophobic assault and harassment.
The point I pointed is that the law draws a hard line but reality has no such hard lines. Some ok things fall beyond the line. Some not ok things fall outside. Some common sense helps with that but even that’s cultural.
As for “literally assault”; I can read Spanish but heavy legalese is not something I want to bother with reading. I’m simply assuming that it is not all that different from whatever the law is in here, across the border. You don’t have conventional “assault” in Portuguese law, you have “offenses to the physical integrity”, which can be “simple”, “aggravated” or “by negligence”. The first two assume intent to physically harm; the last one assumed that you had no intent but were terribly negligent and that led to someone being hurt. (Thats Artigo 143.º if you’re into Deepl-checking that)
So, I don’t even think that spraying people in water would constitute “assault”. Maybe “harassment”, you do have that in legalese; however I do believe that harassment needs to be targeted (like to a very finite group of people, not to hundreds of people).
Then you have “disturbances to the public peace”, but if that was to be enforced it would affect tourists waaaay more than protestors. This kind of law is generally not enforced in order to just let the tourists be drunk in the middle of the road however they want without facing consequences over it.
So, to begin with, I don’t think that anyone here is committing a crime. Your notion of what is a crime is totally up to your society; my society can have a totally different notion.
As a “fun fact”, we recently got pseudo-nazis doing public speeches over “claiming back Portugal” and telling everyone that looked tourist to fuck off. That was not only legal but protected and anyone that attempted to mess with these events would be the one committing a crime.
That kind of logic implies that nobody is responsible for pollution or lack of recycling but governments. You are obviously responsible for your actions. There might be some government shaping them but ideally your conscience would suffice.
For some things you need help from some entity because it is just too hard (like not rewarding companies that put lead in food; silly example but you get it) but simple things like “save water”, “recycle”, “be nice to whoever is nice to you”, “let people exit transit before you go in” are pretty much left for consciousness.
You can decide your next vacation location based on consciousness or you can do so based on ego. “Oh man, Barcelona is cheap and looks sexy in my travel curriculum” is a condemnable attitude.
Like I already asked you plenty of times; how do you regulate that without plenty of side effects?
Travel tax? You’d be harming businesses as well.
Forbid local housing from being used? Already a limitation in place; but too late; not the licenses have already been issued. (PS: These are the license counts for inner Lisbon (emerald is regular housing used for tourists and blue is proper tourism estate): https://poligrafo.sapo.pt/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/4bcf1c68-a837-45ed-9f83-15c4ed12e549.png)
Have some mandatory prioritization of locals over foreigners? That would be xenophobic.
I’ve lived in both Portugal and Barcelona (for one month but it was a thing), in both cases before the tourism boom. The people in both places were everything but xenophobic; they both used to be very welcoming. The thing is not xenophobia as the attitude would be the exact same if the problem was to arise from the same country (if the numbers were enough).
You can’t simply become homeless and jobless while staying welcoming; esp when, not all but plenty of, tourists treat us as inferior. They consider us to have less rights than they do because “they paid”. That’s a real rhetoric you get to experience.
Have these two recent reddit posts (deepl them) as a first hand experience that’s not even trying to be xenophobic but cannot not be: Guy from Azores: https://www.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/1dy6t3f/odeio_turistas/
Foreigner that was shocked at the fact that we look like a British colony: https://www.reddit.com/r/portugal/comments/1e1c4ky/why_albufeira_is_a_british_colony/
I admit I’m not familiar with Spanish law specifically. However I do have a legal background including a master’s in international law and I’m fluent in Spanish. It appears that this very comfortably fits the definition for misdemeanor assault without injury, based on a quick skim. In any case, since you bring up common sense, I think common sense would suggest that spraying people with water who are minding their own business is something that would be prohibited in any country with a sensible legal system. And regardless, it clearly fits the common sense everyday usage of the word.
Personally, if this happened to me, as an ex police officer who worked in London where the threat of acid attacks are very real, I would in the first instance be quite concerned, especially given my PTSD. I think in any civilised, peaceful country a person should be able to mind their own business without being accosted and having water sprayed on them because they look foreign. That shouldn’t be controversial.
As for your point on personal responsibility and your comparison with climate change - yes, I would apply the exact same logic there. It’s the responsibility of the government to regulate the private sector to minimise environmental impact. I would equally criticise assaulting end consumers as a form of climate protest. Would you not? I assume your personal carbon footprint is 0 in that case.
How do I suggest the government do it? I don’t know. That’s not my field. It probably would have some consequences yes - the same can be said for almost any government policy on almost anything. It’s not relevant to my point, which is that it’s not the fault of someone who goes to another country as a tourist. What’s YOUR suggestion? Ban tourists? Continue to target them with harassment until your country is so hostile in accosting foreigners that nobody wants to go there? That’s really a place you’d want to live?
I was in Barcelona last November. I stayed in a hotel for a few days and visited a few sites, went to the theatre, and ate out at a few restaurants. I did that because I enjoy Spanish culture and Barcelona seems like an interesting place, and because I can. I deserved to be harassed and assaulted for that? Really? For visiting somewhere I find interesting, causing no harm to anyone, and spending money in local businesses?
I’m not saying the people of Spain as a whole are xenophobic. I’m saying that these groups who assault and harass people in the streets because they think they’re foreigners are xenophobic. That is a xenophobic attack. And you are currently advocating for it.
I live in a coastal city and during the summer months it is PACKED with tourists from all kinds of countries. I get the annoyance. I experience it first hand. I empathise. But it does NOT warrant this kind of behaviour targeted towards people who are perceived as foreign. That’s not how civilised societies do things. And I’m finding it a bit perplexing that you are simultaneously advocating for that while also talking about making decisions based on conscience.