I am avoiding Tesla because their design philosophy and decisions are gimmicky and don’t not prioritize functionality.
If I am going to spend big money on a car I am going with quality. Not some gimmicky pos where you can’t even open the doors if the battery cuts out. I’ll pass on the touchscreen with wheels.
Even the expensive European brands have gone completely to shit. BMW and Mercedes have given in to it over the last decade. Audi has been a shitshow for years (ask an Audi mechanic if he’d buy an Audi, I dare you).
I am sure you’re going to go find a reason to call it a pos
Why do you assume that? I looked at a CT200h years ago and found it to be a good car, being a Lexus badged Prius. As far as gimiky, it wasn’t immune. The OEM sat nav was pretty outdated and the method for controlling it was clumsy in my opinion. The factory head unit was also a non-standard narrow shape meaning it wasn’t possible to replace it with a better aftermarket unit. These are fairly small complaints. It was a solid car when I looked at it, but not completely gimik-free either.
but it’s still leaps and bounds better than a Tesla in the design department.
This is subjective. Especially comparing a traditional hybrid vs an EV. Its using essentially 15 year old technology, which is solid, but also limited in its efficiency. Does that qualify it as a better design than a modern EV?
This is subjective. Especially comparing a traditional hybrid vs an EV. Its using essentially 15 year old technology, which is solid, but also limited in its efficiency. Does that qualify it as a better design than a modern EV?
It’s definitely subjective. Some people don’t mind having the speedometer off to the right on a touch screen display. Personally I do not. It’s poor design choice for my personal flavor for interacting with the car. The same with the shifter.
The way you interact with the car and satnav and all that is mostly just the standard way Lexus does things. Again it’s subjective but I find it intuitive and not nearly as gimmicky as a giant touch screen. If that’s your biggest complaint for gimmick then I think it’s a leap.
When I talk about quality I am not arguing about ICE vs Hybrid vs EV.
I have nothing to say about Tesla when it comes to EV technology. It could be great for all I know. It isn’t my concern.
My concern are the design gimmicks of the rest of the car. Tesla could have the greatest quality EV tech and I couldn’t give a fuck less because I think their door handles and giant touchscreens are fucking stupid.
It’s definitely subjective. Some people don’t mind having the speedometer off to the right on a touch screen display. Personally I do not. It’s poor design choice for my personal flavor for interacting with the car. The same with the shifter.
My prior car, a Toyota Prius, also had the center-placed speedometer. So that’s not a Tesla only thing. I thought it would bother me. It didn’t end up doing so.
The same with the shifter.
Every shifter prior to 2024 Model 3 has the shifter on a stalk. Thats been a staple of cars since the 1950s. I’m not a fan of buttons for shifting, nor touchscreen. Both require you to take your eyes off the windshield.
So far GM has the worst design for shifting IMO. Its a set of pull levers under the HVAC controls!
You have to tilt your head nearly looking at your lap they are so low to find them, further there is a small cut out that accommodates a single finger you have to find to put your finger in and pull the lever back to engage that function. So when pulling out of a parking spot on a bright sunny day where your eyes are used to looking outside, you now have to look at a wall of a back dashboard and find that little hole to stick your finger in, pull it, remove your finger to back out turning the wheel, then do that same search and eye adjustment all over again to find the “drive” lever. I had this on a rental car once. I avoid all GM rental cars now on the off chance they do this stupidity too.
That setup is so bad, it makes a touch screen gear change a better choice, and I would hate to have a touch screen function for that. Its at least at near eye level, so you don’t have to fumble in the coin tray feeling for it. Its also backlit so you don’t have to wait for your eyes to adjust to the darkness to make the change.
If that’s your biggest complaint for gimmick then I think it’s a leap.
This is the second time your taking a statement I’ve said and made it seem more aggressive on my part, and I don’t know why. The first was when I asked you what kind of car you had, and you automatically said I’d say it was bad, and now this one where I even already stated that these were very small complaints. I pointed them out because they were small on an otherwise good car. If feels like you think I’m attacking you, where I have not done so in any of our posts between us. Why are you doing that?
My concern are the design gimmicks of the rest of the car. Tesla could have the greatest quality EV tech and I couldn’t give a fuck less because I think their door handles and giant touchscreens are fucking stupid.
You’re welcome to your opinion of course. There are certainly design and implementation choices I don’t like on Tesla cars. There are lots of things missing on non-BEV cars today in my opinion too. However, I haven’t found a perfect car yet. So its a choice of measuring the pros and cons of a vehicle with respect to our own tastes and judging on total balance whether its one you like or not. We’ve both done this calculus and arrived at different answers, and there’s nothing wrong with either of our takes because they are right for our own personal experiences.
Half of this thread is people who would never have been getting an EV in general. Just complaining to complain and parroting the most popular clickbait points.
I don’t know that we have the full story on that, but if your car is deep enough to disrupt power to the door release, you’re already too deep to be able to open the door against water pressure. Is it really any better to be drunkenly ripping at a handle while you still can’t open the door and are drunkenly sinking into a pond?
A lot of things went wrong for this person, but I don’t believe an electric door release was one of thenm
Some of the cars do. Others don’t. And those that do have them, like model S, it’s hidden and only exists for front doors. Good luck getting out if you ever need to in case of emergency.
Ok, that’s not ideal. Recent 3 and Y have the levers in fairly obvious places though, to the point that you have to explain to unfamiliar people to ignore them and press the little button instead.
I keep wondering what the cars could be if Musk hadn’t hadn’t gone off on the wild cybertruck goose chase or spent so much effort on self driving instead of driving.
He needs to be pushed out and not just because he’s a lunatic. He’s also incompetent.
I get the hype for futurism and I also think other manufacturers are too timid in making big steps. Instead they just do incremental upgrades. This whole EV push has given us some really good looking cars and finally some daring designs and color choices. But at the same time you really can’t sacrifice safety of the people.
No my example is perfect. And you used the right word to describe it.
CONCEALED.
Ok so maybe the owner knows about it. Not every body who rides or even drives the car is going to be the owner. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances.
You shouldn’t need to be instructed on how to open the fucking door when there is a power failure. It should be intuitive. It’s intuitive in literally #every single car on the road today except for teslas. Oh no. If you are driving in a Tesla you better be briefed ahead of time where the concealed door handle is incase of an emergency and if you don’t happen to know where it is then I guess you’re fucked.
No thanks. I’d rather just buy a car that isn’t designed by brain dead idiots trying to make a buck off a stupid gimmick.
actually if we’re talking about the Model 3 it’s not concealed it’s extremely obvious. most people try to pull that instead of pressing the button to open the door.
Knowing what I know now at this very moment, I would preemptively practice emergency exit from a Tesla ASAP. Practice regularly like we would practice fire drills in a house.
I don’t think quality and longevity really exist for EVs yet. The technology is still too new, constantly changing, and the vehicles may disappear as quickly as they appeared. Legacy manufacturers are still mostly talk. If that’s your criteria, I think we’re still in the stage where leasing is better, only keeping vehicles a few years
This is an odd take. There is more to quality than whether or not it’s an EV.
Listen I get it. EV technology is new. But just because EV tech is new doesn’t mean you have to design your doors like an idiot.
I am not bashing Tesla quality because it’s an EV. I’m not criticizing their batteries or EV technology.
I am criticizing their basic quality characteristics and basic design quality.
For example they don’t put the speedometer on the center dash like literally all other cars do. No instead they put it on the ridiculous touchscreen that is mounted off to your right. So if you want to see your speed you have to glance to the right looking away from the road.
These are design gimmicks from Tesla. It has nothing to do with EV.
And it isn’t ok. Nor would I ever buy those cars for the exact reason. Shit design choice.
Considering the fact that this design choice never became mainstream across the car industry is a good indication it was a shit idea that very few people liked.
I wasn’t trying to justify it as a good choice. I’d never buy one either. But it is simply not true to say that “literally all other cars” other than Teslas have a common speedometer placement.
But it is simply not true to say that “literally all other cars” other than Teslas
You’re right. It’s news to me that there are other car manufacturers out there implementing this horrifically moronic concept. Sadge.
At least it isn’t mainstream. If there are other cars out there with this plague then at least it’s few and far between. I’ve never seen it in any car I’ve ever been in.
I’d like to think it hasn’t become mainstream due to most people agreeing with how stupid of a concept it is. One can only hope.
I am avoiding Tesla because their design philosophy and decisions are gimmicky and don’t not prioritize functionality.
If I am going to spend big money on a car I am going with quality. Not some gimmicky pos where you can’t even open the doors if the battery cuts out. I’ll pass on the touchscreen with wheels.
I’m not sure any manufacturer is producing that car today EV or ICE.
Even the expensive European brands have gone completely to shit. BMW and Mercedes have given in to it over the last decade. Audi has been a shitshow for years (ask an Audi mechanic if he’d buy an Audi, I dare you).
Enshitification cannot be stopped.
Car is a gimmick. Big ugly heavy gimmick.
Considering my current car isn’t a poorly designed gimmick I’m going to have to hardcore disagree with you dawg.
What car do you have?
Lexus CT.
I am sure you’re going to go find a reason to call it a pos but it’s still leaps and bounds better than a Tesla in the design department.
Why do you assume that? I looked at a CT200h years ago and found it to be a good car, being a Lexus badged Prius. As far as gimiky, it wasn’t immune. The OEM sat nav was pretty outdated and the method for controlling it was clumsy in my opinion. The factory head unit was also a non-standard narrow shape meaning it wasn’t possible to replace it with a better aftermarket unit. These are fairly small complaints. It was a solid car when I looked at it, but not completely gimik-free either.
This is subjective. Especially comparing a traditional hybrid vs an EV. Its using essentially 15 year old technology, which is solid, but also limited in its efficiency. Does that qualify it as a better design than a modern EV?
It’s definitely subjective. Some people don’t mind having the speedometer off to the right on a touch screen display. Personally I do not. It’s poor design choice for my personal flavor for interacting with the car. The same with the shifter.
The way you interact with the car and satnav and all that is mostly just the standard way Lexus does things. Again it’s subjective but I find it intuitive and not nearly as gimmicky as a giant touch screen. If that’s your biggest complaint for gimmick then I think it’s a leap.
When I talk about quality I am not arguing about ICE vs Hybrid vs EV.
I have nothing to say about Tesla when it comes to EV technology. It could be great for all I know. It isn’t my concern.
My concern are the design gimmicks of the rest of the car. Tesla could have the greatest quality EV tech and I couldn’t give a fuck less because I think their door handles and giant touchscreens are fucking stupid.
My prior car, a Toyota Prius, also had the center-placed speedometer. So that’s not a Tesla only thing. I thought it would bother me. It didn’t end up doing so.
Every shifter prior to 2024 Model 3 has the shifter on a stalk. Thats been a staple of cars since the 1950s. I’m not a fan of buttons for shifting, nor touchscreen. Both require you to take your eyes off the windshield.
So far GM has the worst design for shifting IMO. Its a set of pull levers under the HVAC controls!
You have to tilt your head nearly looking at your lap they are so low to find them, further there is a small cut out that accommodates a single finger you have to find to put your finger in and pull the lever back to engage that function. So when pulling out of a parking spot on a bright sunny day where your eyes are used to looking outside, you now have to look at a wall of a back dashboard and find that little hole to stick your finger in, pull it, remove your finger to back out turning the wheel, then do that same search and eye adjustment all over again to find the “drive” lever. I had this on a rental car once. I avoid all GM rental cars now on the off chance they do this stupidity too.
That setup is so bad, it makes a touch screen gear change a better choice, and I would hate to have a touch screen function for that. Its at least at near eye level, so you don’t have to fumble in the coin tray feeling for it. Its also backlit so you don’t have to wait for your eyes to adjust to the darkness to make the change.
This is the second time your taking a statement I’ve said and made it seem more aggressive on my part, and I don’t know why. The first was when I asked you what kind of car you had, and you automatically said I’d say it was bad, and now this one where I even already stated that these were very small complaints. I pointed them out because they were small on an otherwise good car. If feels like you think I’m attacking you, where I have not done so in any of our posts between us. Why are you doing that?
You’re welcome to your opinion of course. There are certainly design and implementation choices I don’t like on Tesla cars. There are lots of things missing on non-BEV cars today in my opinion too. However, I haven’t found a perfect car yet. So its a choice of measuring the pros and cons of a vehicle with respect to our own tastes and judging on total balance whether its one you like or not. We’ve both done this calculus and arrived at different answers, and there’s nothing wrong with either of our takes because they are right for our own personal experiences.
Half of this thread is people who would never have been getting an EV in general. Just complaining to complain and parroting the most popular clickbait points.
There is a mechanical lever that you can use if the power is out. Probably it was required by regulators, but it’s there.
I’m sure that wasn’t the deciding factor anyway.
Like I’m going to find that lever when I’m drunk and sinking into a pond
Why would you drive drunk?
Maybe they were a passenger and the actual designated driver got in an accident due to something out of their control.
I don’t know that we have the full story on that, but if your car is deep enough to disrupt power to the door release, you’re already too deep to be able to open the door against water pressure. Is it really any better to be drunkenly ripping at a handle while you still can’t open the door and are drunkenly sinking into a pond?
A lot of things went wrong for this person, but I don’t believe an electric door release was one of thenm
Some of the cars do. Others don’t. And those that do have them, like model S, it’s hidden and only exists for front doors. Good luck getting out if you ever need to in case of emergency.
Ok, that’s not ideal. Recent 3 and Y have the levers in fairly obvious places though, to the point that you have to explain to unfamiliar people to ignore them and press the little button instead.
I keep wondering what the cars could be if Musk hadn’t hadn’t gone off on the wild cybertruck goose chase or spent so much effort on self driving instead of driving.
He needs to be pushed out and not just because he’s a lunatic. He’s also incompetent.
I get the hype for futurism and I also think other manufacturers are too timid in making big steps. Instead they just do incremental upgrades. This whole EV push has given us some really good looking cars and finally some daring designs and color choices. But at the same time you really can’t sacrifice safety of the people.
I agree with you 100%, but your example doesn’t work. There IS a mechanical way to open the door. There’s a concealed handle near the window controls.
Still won’t buy one because the quality is shit and Muskrat is a shitbag, but if you’re gonna hate, hate for the right reasons :)
No my example is perfect. And you used the right word to describe it.
CONCEALED.
Ok so maybe the owner knows about it. Not every body who rides or even drives the car is going to be the owner. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances.
You shouldn’t need to be instructed on how to open the fucking door when there is a power failure. It should be intuitive. It’s intuitive in literally #every single car on the road today except for teslas. Oh no. If you are driving in a Tesla you better be briefed ahead of time where the concealed door handle is incase of an emergency and if you don’t happen to know where it is then I guess you’re fucked.
No thanks. I’d rather just buy a car that isn’t designed by brain dead idiots trying to make a buck off a stupid gimmick.
100% fair. And I agree with you dude. It’s a STUPID fucking design.
But to say there isn’t one at all is disingenuous and detracts from the 100% on the nose argument you’re making.
actually if we’re talking about the Model 3 it’s not concealed it’s extremely obvious. most people try to pull that instead of pressing the button to open the door.
idk if it’s concealed on other models?
Either way opening a door shouldn’t be confusing. This is part of the problem.
Sounds like a personal one.
In an emergency when you are panicking and haven’t practiced opening it tho? If you even know where it is?
I would be surprised if even half of tesla owners know where the handle is
Knowing what I know now at this very moment, I would preemptively practice emergency exit from a Tesla ASAP. Practice regularly like we would practice fire drills in a house.
Nah, you can’t do that bruh. It’s only for emergencies. In fact using it can damage your door. It’s a STUPID fucking design.
Yikes, that’s awful. K I’ll stick with my Mercedes, am no longer remotely envious of teslas anymore.
My passengers find the emergency release all the time.
It’s not “unobvious” either.
Been in one a few times. Had zero idea that was there.
FRONT DOOR ONLY!
I’m curious as to what you consider “quality”. Legitimate question, not being facetious.
Volvo P2 front seats. Probably the most comfortable seats ever made. The rest of the car requires constant repairs though.
I don’t think quality and longevity really exist for EVs yet. The technology is still too new, constantly changing, and the vehicles may disappear as quickly as they appeared. Legacy manufacturers are still mostly talk. If that’s your criteria, I think we’re still in the stage where leasing is better, only keeping vehicles a few years
This is an odd take. There is more to quality than whether or not it’s an EV.
Listen I get it. EV technology is new. But just because EV tech is new doesn’t mean you have to design your doors like an idiot.
I am not bashing Tesla quality because it’s an EV. I’m not criticizing their batteries or EV technology.
I am criticizing their basic quality characteristics and basic design quality.
For example they don’t put the speedometer on the center dash like literally all other cars do. No instead they put it on the ridiculous touchscreen that is mounted off to your right. So if you want to see your speed you have to glance to the right looking away from the road.
These are design gimmicks from Tesla. It has nothing to do with EV.
There are other cars that do this, or did this in recent history. Mini Coopers for example, and some entry-level Toyotas like the Echo.
And it isn’t ok. Nor would I ever buy those cars for the exact reason. Shit design choice.
Considering the fact that this design choice never became mainstream across the car industry is a good indication it was a shit idea that very few people liked.
I wasn’t trying to justify it as a good choice. I’d never buy one either. But it is simply not true to say that “literally all other cars” other than Teslas have a common speedometer placement.
You’re right. It’s news to me that there are other car manufacturers out there implementing this horrifically moronic concept. Sadge.
At least it isn’t mainstream. If there are other cars out there with this plague then at least it’s few and far between. I’ve never seen it in any car I’ve ever been in.
I’d like to think it hasn’t become mainstream due to most people agreeing with how stupid of a concept it is. One can only hope.