Fuck Elon Musk, Fuck Tesla, but Fuck the Wall-Street need for continuous unending growth more
Continuous unending growth will work bro. Please trust me! Expecting infinite growth within a system with finite resources definitely makes sense and is totally sustainable.
This is how Wall Street thinks the economy works.
she cute
the unfortunate thing is they’ll push a company for growth and after a certain point the company starts to destroy itself from within to continue growing. They’ll sell their shares at that point, run the company into the ground, support a new startup that will grow. rinse and repeat. voilà! infinite growth.
I don’t think we need unending growth, but Tesla stock price reflected expected growth. Which this rating basically denies. In other words “TSLA is overvalued”
Yeah. If anything, Wall Street and the stock market in general are just social impressions of companies. Facebook went from 150 to 80 to 500 in a year with no real changes other than firing a bunch of people (and rehiring a lot of them back or otherwise backfilling those slots).
Imagine a car company selling the same model and style of car for over 10 years. That’s almost every car in their line up except for the goofy rust box. There is no innovation in Tesla.
Remember when Tesla was an exciting and emergent name in energy and power systems? Tesla solar tiles made solar look incredible. What has Tesla done lately to drive down costs or increase value? Nothing. They recently came out with the 3rd iteration of their on-site battery and it is a lateral move from their earlier models. There is no long term growth or money put into research. There is no innovation at Tesla.
Nothing wrong with that if you do it right. The original air cooled VW Beetle sold and sold and sold for years.
The original Beetle was a very cheap car being sold at a time when no one else was making such vehicles. Sales tanked once competition showed up. The problem is that Tesla is seeing competition now.
Also, Teslas aren’t cheap. So the market for them is much smaller.
They made the Beetle from 1938 to 2003. Pretty sure other people were making similar vehicles during that time span. They only stopped making it because it could no longer meet environmental exhaust requirements in most countries (air cooled).
Not who originally commented but you said the original air cooled beatle and then proceeded to to say 1938-2003 which is it. The OG or all of them?
The beetle was made until 2003. The new beetle, a different car, started production in 1997. It was manufactured side by side with the original beetle.
It was well past its prime by the 1970s. VW would’ve ended production long before 2003 if it wasn’t seen as an iconic vehicle.
There’s innovation. He had his engineers remove the radar sensors which made the cars more accident prone when doing actions considered solved problems by other car manufacturers
Yeah, pretty much every complaint about the current state of Tesla’s FSD boils down to one acronym: “LiDAR”.
For the unaware, Elon has convinced himself that cars should be able to drive better than humans, while receiving less visual information via LiDAR. All of the early “wow factor” stuff from Tesla’s self-driving, (like the car automatically braking because it sensed an accident four cars ahead,) was due to radar. But Elon demanded that they get rid of the radar sensors, and move entirely to LiDAR. Because it has lasers.
But the problem with LiDAR is that it can’t see around obstacles. It works via light, just like our eyes, and that means it can’t detect anything beyond the car in front of it. With radar, it could see two or three cars ahead. It could see through/around them to detect obstacles, pedestrians, etc… But now it can’t do any of that, so they’re much more prone to accidents.
You’re slightly off here. Elon (and Tesla as an extension) doesn’t like LiDAR, and doesn’t use it in any of the vehicles. Cost, complexity, and sensor fusion issues make it undesirable to them.
Tesla is using a vision only approach for their various driver assistance features, including FSD (and you should be able to find presentations where he mentions that humans use vision, so the cars should too). Whether that is a good thing or not is up to interpretation.
None of the past or current Tesla models have LiDAR sensors - only radar, ultrasonic, and 7/8 cameras (with radar and ultrasonic sensors being absent from some newer vehicles)
Even if you buy a Tesla for the EV and tech, you should decline FSD and not rely at all on any of the automated driving features. It’s all a lie.
Because Ford is such an innovative company, right? Mustang, F-150, Explorer. If their other models disappeared, no one would notice.
I’m all for hating Musk, but the only difference Tesla and other companies is Tesla is younger. Hell, I was looking at buying an Ioniq 5. I went to the site, built one, and I get “There are zero vehicles nearby. Please look at similar vehicles near your location or contact your nearest dealer.” Motherfucker I’m not paying $60k for “close enough to.” Dealership shit needs to go. Put a price on the site and let me get what I order.
They were literally keeping Hyundai and/or Kia (can’t remember which or both) cars on lots in Canada and not delivering then because the top level coprorate level didn’t want to exceed their goals. They wouldn’t release the cars to the dealers.
People were waiting months for cars because of that bullshit.
While their cars haven’t changed visually, the technology in them has come a long way, in particular the battery tech.
To say there is no innovation isn’t quite fair.
They said with no sourced information to support their claims…
I don’t care enough about your opinion to go digging, sorry.
Kind of like no one here cares for your unsubstantiated statements?
If you can’t be bothered to back up what you’re claiming, next time don’t bother commenting at all. It’s not adding value to this discussion.
But you’re on board with the original commenter saying there’s been no innovation with nothing to back that up.
Interesting.
Please point out exactly where I said I agree with the original commenter and not that it’s just some inference you made. Don’t put words in my mouth.
I called this one out due to their cuntish attitude.
It was implied by you saying they aren’t contributing anything to the conversation. A conversation based on a statement with no evidence.
If you’re just out here playing random comment police, then as you were, officer.
What’s different?
Different types of cells, different chemistry, higher capacity, faster charging.
+1, -7
Not sure if those downvotes are from chemists… :)
Great news!
you’re not allowed to be reasonable when it comes to tesla on here. have you learned nothing?
Yeah, it’s kinda pathetic the blind hatred some people have for Musk and Co.
see my downvotes for confirmation. personally i do hate Musk but Tesla is not musk.
I can’t speak for other countries, but here in Brazil we suddenly got a massive influx of Chinese electric car brands. The feeling I get is that I went to sleep in a country where you couldn’t even find an electric charger and woke up in one where I could do a road trip with an electric car with zero issues.
Vehicles are extremely expensive here, but a Tesla would be out of this world expensive even if we just directly converted USD to BRL, which is not anywhere close to the actual final price. The Chinese cars are affordable by comparison, they do not lock you into weird proprietary non-standards, they have easy to purchase spare parts and do not require some weird dance to get a repair technician when you need one… I can say Tesla would have zero success here at this point. Completely different context, but I can see why they’re no longer growing in the US given how there are other mature electric cars brands out there - missing the pretentious tech bro appeal, of course.
I see a lot of BYD cars here in Australia as well (along with some other brands). And I guess even if you buy a Tesla here, your car will be made in China no matter what.
You can’t really get any of those Chinese car brands in the USA. Best you can usually do is import one directly yourself and by then the price doesn’t make sense. I assume that GM and Ford have something to do with it.
BYD is reportedly going to build a Mexico factory to enter into the US. More power to them, a cheap EV maker would move things along very quickly in adoption.
I know what you’re thinking: “but muh china” which is a good counterpoint, and here’s my response.
Honestly my question would be for build quality, but if the Mexicans are building it that goeas away.
And any other issues I have with the cars are problems I have with all modern cars, and most of them can be solved with wire cutters and power tools. Also id probably at most get a used one, because fuck buying new.
A car company with a tech startup multiple was always going to lead to tears.
Elon personally did this by being a toddler.
I saw a growth entity with no growth once. It was a dead tree.
Teslas are like BMWs now. Good chance the driver is an ass.
Not necessarily. If someone bought a Tesla years ago before Musk came out as an insufferable buffoon, it’s hardly their fault for driving it.
It’s folks who are buying Teslas now that you have to watch out for.
Thank you. My Tesla is essentially worthless now, as I couldn’t sell it to anyone in good conscience. I thought I was helping save the earth and helped finance a disaster instead.
Once Elon steps down from Tesla, the stocks will go up again.
Nope. Tesla had been extremely overvalued (think in the range of a factor of 10) and continues to be much more “worth” than it’s real value. It has a new product that gave it an edge. Other car manufacturers that are factors bigger than Tesla have caught on and are surpassing it quickly. The way I see it, Tesla is dead soon
For anyone wondering, Teslas market cap is roughly $500 billion and Ford is ~$50 billion.
There is no way Tesla is worth 10 times what Ford is.
Ford’s total revenue last year was $176 billion and Tesla’s was $96 billion.
Also, Ford makes a butt load more models and units than Tesla. Tesla has, what, 4 models? Teslas stock price is ridiculous
The number of models is irrelevant, sales are what matter.
I’d say it is. Making a new model car requires a lot of investments, setting up supply chains and what not. Ford has done a shit tonne of that AND sold factors more cars than tesla. It may not be the main point of critique, but it definitely counts
The only reason why tesla is this high is because of the lies and outright fraud (“funding secured”) perpetrated by musk. The lies had fanboys believing it’s a battery manufacturing leader, AI company, robotics, and even space company (because of spaceX, even though it’s a separate company). However, the “battery manufacturing” is assembling battery cells which are actually made by Panasonic. The “AI” is a terrible self-driving mode which isn’t anywhere close to fully self-driving like musk promised long ago. The robotics is straight-up vaporware, even more than most musk lies.
So what you’re left with is a regular EV company which has now been beaten by BYD in terms of number of EVs sold and BYD is poised to expand much more than tesla. This regular EV company that is getting outcompeted and shows unpromising growth is somehow valued more than multiple top automotive companies combined still. This trash has a long way to fall and I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets kicked out of the S&P 500 which would make it fall even harder.
I doubt it. I suspect a lot of their value is in the hype and perceived value Elon himself brings. I think investors buy his “I’m an engineer” bullshit.
There is def hype. But which American company has the infrastructure to actually compete with EV cars right now? Sure their cars are garbage and downright terrible right now. But so was Toyota when they first was introduced.
Investors are banking on the long term which is their battery production and battery tech.
Hooray for Wells Fargo! The real heroes.
Never thought I’d read that but here we are
Oooooooo…
Citadel in dire straits
Are there apes on Lemmy?
.desolc reven strohS
The sad thing is, I don’t even need to imagine what he looks like when he’s mad xitting at something like this. I just know, like its cognition.
And its not even like that scene from Big Trouble in Little China, which just shows I am forced to think about this sonofaremoved on the regular.
Thunderf00t predicted bankruptcy… Here we go.
Who?
Yes, but his anti-Musk content is spot on so far.
Sure. He gets things right on other topics all the time. But he has lost, at least for me, a reason to be given attention.
A broken clock is right at least 2x daily.
How? The only people filing bankruptcy or discontinuing EVs are competitors. If anything, Tesla’s the only one doing it successfully.
You know shits bad at Tesla when Tesla, a company that has never needed advertising… has been dumping shitloads of money into youtube ads to tell us how awesome they are. I swear I get one every other adbreak.
and I’m just laughing my ass off and hitting skip ad every time. (its on my xbox, before people scream ublock origin :p)
My weiner can relate
