What would you have me do? All I can do is vote against it.
If you don’t have a lot to fear from a right-wing dictatorship I guess all you can do is vote against it.
If you’re someone who does have something to fear from a right-wing dictatorship, begin thinking about preparations to hide, run, fight etc. because unsurprisingly every right-wing dictatorship has a high body count.
Still hoping common sense wins out, and unlike a lot of other countries that went dictatorship the military doesn’t have the same relative power and authority, but it’s best to have some plans for the problems that could occur.
The most influential person in politics is you. Openly speaking out to your family and friends about the danger of Donald Trump is the best method of his defeat and the preservation of our democracy. All politics is local.
Oh yeah, a lot of good that will do against the propaganda machine with billions of dollars to spend and a whole apparatus of disinformation to use. But, I’m sure my uncle who has gotten angry and cussed me out over politics will surely change his mind this time
You should look up Deep Canvasing. That technique is actually very effective at overcoming personal biases, and it’s a big reason why there was a huge public shift with regards to gay rights.
The propaganda machine isn’t omnipotent, as much as it would want you to believe that.
Right on, actual helpful techniques/information instead of being condescending or belittling! It seems so rare in political threads, thank you.
You should make a main post with this. I think lots of people would appreciate knowing about this method.
Thanks for the plug, I’ll look it up.
That’s exactly how the propaganda machine wants you to feel and speak. Parent comment is right. You are the one with the power. Exercise it as if you might lose it if you don’t!
The propaganda to get people to disengage is so damn strong. It comes from the same place as “oh everyone’s equally corrupt” etc
The path to freedom was made with the blood and guts of those who were brave enough to fight for it. I think to can yell your uncle he has betrayed the American people and has disgraced his family.
You have such a defeatist attitude. If that’s how you feel, just vote for Trump.
Time for the people of the US to do some kind of a peaceful overthrowing of the system
Have you ever seen a peaceful overthrow of a government before? I haven’t.
Czechoslovakia did it.
That’s about the only example I can think of.
They did? They just assumed control after a large majority was already dead.
The dissolution of Czechoslovakia was probably the only time in history that a state just voted to dissolve without violence.
Yeah, I’m not arguing with you, BUT…there was a ton of violence before, just not directly related. It’s a power vacuum by violence.
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I don’t mind the way if the people there can get some kind of progress going, while it’s wrong to condone a violent uprising.
Peaceful movement can of course turn into a self defense situation which is ethically understandable.
That’s what voting against Trump looks like.
We cant expel sex offenders and insurectionists from government, you think you can peacefully overthrow the whole thing?
It’s impossible to peacefully overthrow a violent opposition.
Definitely would take a lot of people physically present at least
Sideeye from the voting booth
Goes back to voting
If you don’t think we can win in the voting booth, we can’t win nonviolently, and we probably can’t win using violence, either. Voting is the non violent way to change things.
Too bad that even that voting system is rigged to only two options
Hard agree.
To win we just need to look at the success of the teabaggers. They ran people at the bottom - school boards, county positions and local city councils. It took about ten years for those to move up the power chain to congress. Of course they achieved power through the backing of tons of very wealthy conservatives, state-of-the-art propaganda and experts at cheating, sprinkled with borderline violence.
That’s all you can do. Also, talk to everyone you know. Mention Project 2025 and it’s goals. Encourage people to register to vote. Light fires under asses. Get mad about it NOW. If Trump gets elected, America is super fucked.
I’m in a super red area, if I encourage more people to vote Trump gets more votes. But everyone around here is so unbelievably brainwashed I just gave up. I’ll vote but I can’t do much else about it.
Right? If I talk about Project 2025 to most people around me they’ll be super excited and do whatever they can to make sure it happens.
Biden out there committing genocide and you’re pretending America isn’t fucked right now.
The mental gymnastics Americans will do…
whenever in mixed company just casually mention the hooker piss tape that you saw of him and how you were surprised by his micropenis. ‘sure explains a lot, eh?’
We’re not sleepwalking into anything.
There’s an increasing number of people who are sprinting towards it at top speed, an increasing number of people willing to let it happen because they’re mad at Biden over Israel or upset that he’s not the embodiment of the perfect candidate, and then those of us who are blaring the warnings from our bullhorns, only to find that half the crowd is blaring right along with us and the other half has no interest in what we’re saying.
“Biden’s old and Israel is bad now, so clearly the obvious solution is to vote for a Trump dictatorship. Surely that’s the most common-sense solution and absolutely nothing can go wrong. The leopard certainly won’t eat my face, right? Right???” – an increasing number of independent and Democrat voters
Also, a lot of the media wants a horse race and wants their clicks, no matter the risk. And they keep bothsidering Biden and Donnie.
I believe it was actually CBS that openly admitted to this because of how profitable it is. Like it or not, Trump is correct in his statement that a lot of these news networks are raking in record profits by hanging on every word he says as if it were a biblical proclamation. News comapnies across the board are going to see huge hits to their bottom lines once he’s out of the public spotlight.
The party is dogshit at messaging and has no intention of even trying to get the votes of the people you described.
The principal concern at the moment seems to be preemptively finding a group to blame if Biden loses. Imagine if that energy and focus were put into trying to win votes.
Why would Biden need to win votes when they can simply be manufactured
TBH I would understand if he was smart, scheming and charismatic. Instead, they are rooting for a buffoon, an idiot and a failed businessman. He was even in power before, and they still want him back.
Give a person someone else to blame for everything wrong in their own lives, and he will follow you anywhere.
The folks who say never Biden are right wing operatives. Perhaps unwittingly in some cases, but I suspect many of the loudest voices don’t want to see any Democrat win and running down Biden is their best shot at that.
The folks who say never Biden are right wing operatives.
I wouldn’t be so sure on that.
Disclaimer: Admittedly, this is my own anecdotal experience, which should be given as much weight as any other anecdotal evidence from some rando on the internet. But I have talked to people who are saying exactly that. I haven’t heard any of the “he’s too old” bit, but I do know of independent voters who intend to hold their nose and vote for Trump even if they don’t like him because they’re letting their opinions on the Israel situation cloud their judgement. Granted, I live in MA and they live in right-leaning areas of the state so their protest vote for Trump won’t change a thing since MA is one of the bluest states in the country.
It’s the independent voters in states like Michigan that I’m worried about, because it won’t take many of them to flip some of those states red.
You clipped that to imply I said all of them when I absolutely didn’t. I also am an independent in Michigan. I can’t make promises but I’m seeing vehement enthusiasm for voting blue among the swing voters I know. Admittedly it’s anecdotal.
Anecdotal I know a lot of lifelong Republicans in Michigan voting straight ticket Dem now because of what’s going on. It’s not everyone, but every little bit helps.
I don’t want to see any Democrat or Republican or anyone win that is beholden to private entities rather than the people.
It’s all a fuckin show and has been for over 100 years. It goes back further than that but at least we were mostly free of it prior to 1900.
You and me both. It’s a sad state of affairs that it’s not even an option. How we vote and the two party system is written into the fucking Constitution (not as such but the parties become inevitable) and we have to live with it. It’s supposed to be a living document reacting to changes in the times but that’s not possible right now.
I get not wanting either party. I’m certainly not beholden to either of them. But we are stuck. And we can fight one battle at a time to slowly move things in the direction they need to go even if it’s one step forward and two back, or we can give up and just find a way to live with whatever chaos and injustice others choose for us. Because right now there just isn’t another option. Maybe some day if we fight hard enough and we win often enough we can win better options for the future, but they probably won’t be for us. The road is long and the progress is slow.
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Ahh, yes. Just completely disregard any criticism of the Democratic Party as “right wing operatives.” It couldn’t possibly be that they abuse their position as the only other viable option in order to further their plutocratic goals, and the people who have been complaining about it for decades are simply tired of hearing “it’s not the right time” ad nauseum.
You know what will convince people who barely managed to vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020 to vote against their conscience yet again? Knowing that they’ll be instantly blamed anyway when the majority doesn’t get their way? Insults and baseless accusations.
Criticize away. I’m no democrat and I have no love for them. I get into disagreements with those on the left about various things I disagree with. But at the end of the day I can work with democrats and I can’t with fascists. Defending freedom and the constitution against tyranny is something I swore an oath to do, and I will vote for nothing but democrats as long as fascism looms here.
If you’re advocating voting for anyone other than Biden, you are a de facto right wing operative. That may not be the intention, but that’s absolutely the result. It’s not an insult, it’s simply math.
There is no viable alternative to Biden for the 2024 election. Not a single one. Push Biden and the Democratic Party left, don’t campaign against them unless you want the GOP to gain more control. That’s unfortunately the reality of a FPTP system. Something like ranked choice voting would be a great way to change that. Guess which party is actively fighting against increasing representation and voting access? The very same people you’re electing when you sit out or vote 3rd party. If someone can explain to me how Biden losing the election is a net positive for the country I’m all ears.
See, the problem is that you and I disagree about the virtue of the Democratic Party. To me, they are an abusive bully who removes voices when it’s convenient (in their primaries), and then turns around and claims we must vote for them in order to preserve democracy. That rings hollow to those who have already had their voices muffled by the party itself. They’ve limited where I can express my voice to the very place that they have complete, unimpeachable control.
The only thing I have left is to express myself by refusing them a vote in the general. As you said, this is the unfortunate reality of the FPTP system. If they want my vote, they can implement a ranked choice system and I’ll happily put them on my list where they belong. Alternatively, they can run their primaries fairly and I’ll recognize the winner as legitimate.
I gave them my vote in 2016 literally only because of Trump and it nearly broke me. I gave them my vote in 2020 because of some specific promises the Biden campaign made that they then turned back on. In both cases the primaries were run in a specific way to engineer a win for their preferred candidate. Never explicitly against the rules because the party itself made the rules to allow it. And even then they were happy to break their charter’s promise to run primaries in a fair and even-handed way and argue in court they had no legal obligation to follow it.
In the case of Biden, I said in 2020 that that was my last free vote for the Democratic Party. They had 4 years to convince me they were willing to work with progressives, or else their vote from me would be contingent on them cleaning up their act. They have, on many occasions in the last 3 years, shown me that they have no intention of working in good faith with progressives.
I’m just done being abused. It’s time for them to actually follow their own empty words.
This is why the Democrats need to win, remove the Trump factor and try to either drag the Republican Party more to the center, or have the Democrats win in such a decisive way that it forces the Republicans to shift left. In the ideal world we don’t have FPTP, but all we can push for is a splitting of the Democrats so that folks like AOC and Biden aren’t considered part of the same party.
I don’t believe a Democratic win will push anyone left. The Republicans clearly have no interest in that, they’d rather get rid of democracy altogether. And the Democrats see any victory as a mandate for their centrism and any loss as a reason to move right.
If a Democratic win moves us left, why didn’t 2020 accomplish this? Why didn’t 2008 accomplish this? Why has every Democratic victory after FDR moved the party to the right?
To keep that ratchet spinning.
And the solution is what? Vote Republican? Not vote (thereby essentially giving the Republicans a vote)? You can be damn sure that crazy racist uncle Bob isn’t going to skip voting for a wannabe-dictator
Results aren’t instant and we have moved left. Since 2016, Republicans have lost every single election. 2018, Dems gain the house removing the complete control R’s had in the house, senate and Executive. 2020, Trump loses his reelection (first time in like 20+ years that happens) D’s hold the house and gain a slime majority in the Senate. 2022, with a D president history shows D’s should lose seats in congress. D’s lose the house narrowly and gain seats in the senate, I think this the first time in 10ish years this happened. When FDR was president, it was fine to be racist again minorities, be prejudiced against the LGBTQ+ community (as well as let them die of AIDS), and weed was bad. Those things have changed, and include the fact that every abortion restriction law has been denied by the voters of every state that has tried, including Kentucky. The issue with the lack of a sharp turn left is that US politics doesn’t work that way. Actual movement is based on the mid point between both parties, and right now Republicans have been trying to move further and further right. In general shifts in politics are slow for the US, which is good for preventing bad things but not great for quickly encouraging the good. If R’s continue to screw up as they have, they will have to reevaluate their platform to stay relevant. Being homophobic, sexist and an ally of Nazis and white supremacists isn’t a winning ticket for a majority of voters.
Fuck that. The Left has lost its marbles. The average republican voter is already pretty damn centered.
“Preserve Democracy”
They routinely show that they don’t understand we’re a Republic as well. It’s very clear that most of the politicians in DC are just the puppets of a private controlling entity. And they have been for decades.
Hi. So, your problem is that you didn’t get what you wanted, and now you’re going to throw a political temper tantrum and let the autocrat in. If gays and minorities are rounded up for concentration camps in the future, know that your letting ‘the perfect be the enemy of the good’ is why that happened. Hell, your posts on this very forum might be used to arrest and imprison you as a political subversive if Trump gets in, so you may well have skin in the game yourself. Something to think about.
No, my problem is that the Democratic party is corrupt, and continuing to prop it up will make the problem worse, not better.
I’m not letting perfect be the enemy of good. If the DNC can run fair primaries (which doesn’t mean my preferred candidate wins), I’ll recognize them as legitimate political contests. Until then, I’m simply tired of hearing “it’s not the right time” because it’s never the right time. If we keep waiting for the “right time,” then more people will die because we all refused to hold the Democratic Party responsible now.
And I do mean they are responsible. They gave us Trump very directly. They propped up his campaign to radicalize the right in order to shove an extraordinarily unpopular candidate through. That they now continue to use the same pied piper strategy only shows that they’ll continue to radicalize the right in order to coerce votes from people who don’t like them. Refusing to stand up to that makes you responsible for everything their pied pipers accomplish.
They’re not even “radicalizing” the Right. They’re simply forcing the narrative to rewrite the Overton Window and people are fucking Lemmings these days incapable of independent thought and analysis.
Even better, they’re radically targeting the Right (see: rosaries are now a sign of being an “extremist”) and constantly acting like they’re the good guys.
All of DC is beyond corrupt. The people behind them benefitting from it aren’t going to let it go either.
Trump had thay whole Drain The Swamp premise and that was never going to happen. Heck, from an uninvolved party, looks like they tangled him up and neutered him so he couldn’t. His son in law was a traitor, I’m sure the government not so subtly threatened to go after his properties and businesses, and like most people, he guaranteed wasn’t willing to lose everything in the attempt.
That’s why nothing will get better. People by and large are fat, dumb, happy, materialistic, hedonistic, selfish, and all manner of other pitiful traits, just as they’ve been programmed to be over the last half century. News, media, music, etc has effectively turned the entire country into soft people who will never actually resort to the necessary means to reclaim what this country was and their freedoms.
And the constant ops and attacks and broadcasting of how the government has railroaded people simply for thinking that way further demoralizes them.
The best example I can give is look how demonized Hitler is. But I bet 99.99% of anyone has never actually looked into the history. Never understood that he was Time Man of the Year because he was Germany’s savior from corrupt international powers. He brought about the greatest economic and national recovery in modern history. But all people know or believe is the narrative pushed about him.
So sane people who can see Biden should be in hospice care and is literally just a puppet figurehead are all Right Wing Operatives?
Holy shit you Far Left loonies are insane. “If you’re not part of the groupthink that the powers who run the media dictates to us, you must be an operative from the other team.”
Absolutely insane. How do you people function in the real world?
How is protecting the queer community, women’s rights, and the civil rights of PoC, voting against your conscience exactly?
Because I believe that protecting democracy is a prerequisite to protecting citizens, especially marginalized groups. The Democratic Party, to me, is a threat to democracy. Different from the Republican party, yes. And much less severe. But a threat nonetheless.
This isn’t “both sides,” the Republicans have 0% chance of ever getting my vote, period. The Democrats can earn my vote but choose not to. In my opinion, they are an active participant in the erosion of democracy in this country. They just have the benefit of only having to do it within their own party.
Is this in the general sense or are there specific policies/actions you could point me to as examples?
Two in particular:
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The DNC has no interest in running an impartial and even-handed primary. It went so far as to argue in court that it was not bound by the language of its charter to run fair primaries. Since the Democratic primary is currently the only place that progressives can voice their political preferences, this practice effectively removes the right to political representation of anyone left of the party.
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The Democratic Party engages in pied piper strategies, bolstering extremists within the Republican Party in order to increase their chances of winning the general (by promoting the “you have to vote D to avoid R” rhetoric that this thread started with). Specific to the current political climate, the DNC and the Hillary campaign promoted Trump in the 2016 Republican primary since they saw him as easier to beat than the rest of the field.
So they suppress voters to their left and intentionally radicalize the party and voters to their right.
Hmm ok fair enough actually, thanks
I could point back to 2016 DNC primaries as a perfect example. The vote of the average Democrat voter means jack shit. The caucus leaders and (I forget the position) leaders in the DNC for each zone/region are the only votes that matters. Quite literally how the DNC told the average Democrat voter, “go fuck yourself we’re not putting in Bernie because he’s not part of our globalist scheme”
The RNC isn’t any better. Willfully tanking candidates that realize BOTH parties are playing for a team that is not for the People and their Rights and freedoms.
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You believe, because you don’t know for certain.
You think those people will be better protected under a republican admin?
Do you think what those people will go through under republican leadership is worth it so that the DNC “learns its lesson” whatever the flying fuck that’s supposed to mean because people like you can’t even be bothered with the primaries you claim to be so incensed about when you turn your nose up at protecting other people’s rights.
Believe it or not democracy is actually not when the candidate with less votes gets forced into the nomination anyways because “trust me bro more people want him bro just ignore he got less votes bro!”
Believe it or not Vote Karen, us folks you’re threatening to send back to the Republicans to be rounded up and tormented if not killed for another 4 years are not able to bring you the party’s manager.
You believe “protecting democracy” whatever the fuck you think that means, comes ahead of protecting people’s lives, and that’s a position you can only have if it isn’t your life in danger.
You objectively prefer us as dead bodies you can gesture to and shout “SEE!” as if it was some nebulous elite’s fault that you refused to save us. You prefer us that way because dead bodies don’t expect you to actually show your solidarity even when it’s such a herculean strain as waiting in line for a day at most and filling some boxes out.
Be an ally, or quit moaning when the people you claim you’re trying to help point out that you’re trying to extort a negotiation out of them for something they have no control over because that seems more “revolutionary” to you than just being there to have it go your way in the first fucking place at the primary stage if you’re willing to turn us over to the fucking gestapo over it.
You believe, because you don’t know for certain.
Followed up by you conjuring up all sorts of things you claim I believe to argue against strawmen.
And by the way, I phrase things as “I believe” because that’s what humans base their decisions on. None of us know anything 100%. I can recognize that we can work towards the same goal and have different beliefs about the best way to get there. I don’t automatically assume that everyone who disagrees with my methods also disagree with my goals.
Yeah because you have the privilege to not be condemned to possible state sanctioned violence by that “difference in methods” fuckin’ priv.
Well, who cares about a “threat to Democracy” when we’re a Republic?
Shifting towards this “Democracy” has seen nothing but rampant devaluation of currency coupled with massive increase in cost of goods, housing, energy, etc. and loss of Rights and freedoms.
Do they not teach Civics in school anymore?
We should go back to tax-neutral/positive heads of household being the only ones voting as they have a vested interest in the success of this nation. I’ll even leave out the land owning part since the “Democracy” chasers fucked most of us out of that one.
None of those are or have been under threat in decades and decades.
Nobody is entitled to special treatment so stop the nonsense.
Decades and decades, way to fuckin out your priv self that spectacularly. For those of us that actually live the experience, we’ve never stopped being under threat, least of all with folks like you getting so mad that we ask for even a modicum of ongoing protection.
@MagicShel I know this is hard to understand, but genocide affects our decision making, and some of us would even prefer our country to fall to complete ruin than be aparty to it. Never again isn’t “never again unless it would be politically expedient”
Do you understand what I mean? That there are lines that can never, ever be crossed?
Do you understand why I’d never be able to look in the mirror again after that?
So you think that the default is no genocide? No genocide is not an option here. Our realistic options are:
A) genocide
B) genocide + fascism at home
Not choosing defaults to B
@kool_newt I’m deontologically committed to not being personally aparty to genocide, and your commitment to a utilitarian calculus where genocide is a given, is exactly why I’ve made that choice.
Ok, and I’m saying by not participating you’re effectively choosing not only genocide but fascism. As Rush says
“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice”
@kool_newt oh I made my choice. I hope some day you will realize that you have too and what it means got you.
I’m secure in my knowledge that my ideology isn’t so radical I shoot myself in the foot.
If you think Trump is going to bring a halt to genocide you’re delusional. Vote Trump in and the genocide will continue or escalate. The GOP will escalate persecution of your countrymen and will further dismantle our democracy.
All the shit Trump did, locking kids in cages, rampant corruption, constant stream of lies, bungled foreign policy, stochastic terrorism. None of that crosses the line for you.
Or is it that you’re more about the symbolism of your vote than its real world effects?
@agent_flounder I’m not going to choose between two different far right genocidal monsters.
There’s no rhetorical game here. What you’re asking me to do is an evil my conscience won’t bear, and yours will because of your moral cowardice.
Messy. Damnable. Pragmatism is hell, not cowardice. Trump is not a clay that can be worked on. He will go all in with what Israel is doing. With no alternative, if the lesser evil saves a life I’ll shake hands with it and kiss it on either cheek.
Good grief. Obviously acting in bad faith here rather than actually engaging and discussing. Hopefully few people in battleground states fall for all the people pushing this line on social media.
Fellow citizens, I don’t have to tell you genocide is disgusting. We need to be demanding of our reps and president to put a stop to the genocide here and Sudan both.
Hopefully nobody has to be told that the US has a long history of horrific foreign policy decisions (look up Kissinger or various coups we initiated or wars we started) that kill people by the millions either directly or indirectly. It’s up to us peons to fight this, fight the corruption that runs rampant, and fight to make our democracy work more for us than the Uber rich and powerful. Tale as old as time. It took decades to get us here and it will take decades to unfuck things.
But we are all fucked if if the GOP is allowed to implement Project 2025. It will be even more destructive to our institutions and democracy than the first Trump Presidency.
So, if we’re going to get all judgemental and shit on each other, your ‘conscience’ is a thinly veiled ‘burn it all down’ anarchy tendency that will create an actual genocide, rather than the imagined genocide in your own head.
First, let’s talk Israel vs. Hamas. Yeah. Israel is a bad guy here. But so is Hamas. They’d GLADLY mow each other down in a hail of gunfire and explosions if they thought they could get away with it. BOTH are looking for excuses to nuke each other. BOTH are looking for opportunities to create mass graves. There are no good guys here. Just villains and victims. And let’s get real. Both the Jews and the Palestinians are in the victim camp.
Biden is walking a tightrope over the abyss, trying to negotiate cease fires and freeing of both Israeli and Palestinian captives. He’s trying to minimise the war as much as he realistically can. Hamas is being backed by Iran with support from other Iranian proxies in the area, and of course we know Iran is part of the new Russo-Chinese axis that’s trying to form in opposition not only to the United States but also the basic notion that everyone has a right to exist, live their lives, and form their own governments according to their whims. So forcing Israel to let Hamas just waltz into their land, kill and abduct a fuckton of people, and strike a blow at Israel without consequence is playing into Iran and thus China and Russia’s hands.
Of course, your ‘conscience’ won’t bear examining these facts because that’d tell you that there’s an uncomfortable complexity in this world. So you’d rather let the Authoritarian here in the States win because the other guy isn’t hard enough on what you consider a bad guy. And when that shithead gets into office, every person he hurts is going to be on your shoulders, whether you acknowledge that or not. I just hope my wife is out of the US before it happens, given she’s a Black Bisexual Pagan Goth gal.
@jhymesba And here’s where you show you’re not just okay with genocide in some vague “Stop trump” capacity, but a full-on pro-genocide monster yourself.
Slaughtering 10 thousand children, after Hamas killed a bunch of concentration camp guards isn’t “self defense”.
You’re just evil.
We aren’t committing genocide. We oppose genocide in Ukraine, and we would allow it under Trump. The fact that you’d be fine letting this country burn doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. We can’t help anyone in that state. And a lot of us want to help.
@MagicShel We’re making it much much much much worse, providing direct financial and military aid to a country actively slaughtering tens of thousands and displacing millions to facilitate ethnic cleansing.
It’s not that trump wouldn’t be worse, just they supporting Biden is totally and completely unconscionable. And to do so sacrifices a piece of your soul.
Refusing to stand up to fascism is unconscionable to me. My grandfather fought a war against it overseas and I’m not about to fail him here.
Refusing to stand up to fascism is unconscionable to me.
Then the Democratic Party should consider starting. Instead, they’ve unfailingly pretended that fascists are honorable people interested in serious governance that we should just compromise with in order to get concessions.
No disagreement.
@MagicShel voting for a genocidal monster isn’t standing up to fascism. There is a rot deep in your soul if you’ll let yourself fall that far.
Biden isn’t a genocidal monster and those words make you sound pretty unhinged. The fact that one of our close allies has been committing genocide is certainly a problem that we need to address but letting Trump win isn’t going to do Palestinians any favors.
Look, I will hold my nose and vote for Biden in the general, just like last time. But don’t pretend that he had any business running again.
I’m not gonna vote for anyone because I’m way too left to agree with a lot of their politics, I’m just gonna vote against Trump. It doesn’t matter who is running against him, I’m not letting that dipshit win again. Or the republican party in general at this point, they’ve gotten too crazy.
Centrist City here I plod
I said before, and I’ll say again, Biden is this generation’s Jimmy Carter. If the GOP were to have put forth any competent candidate in 2020, I think Biden would’ve lost by a landslide. Same goes in 2024. Not that I agree with her policies, but given the current political climate, I think the advantage would go to Nikki Hailey if she were to get the nod. But if the choices are (A) Donald Trump, and (B)…it doesn’t matter what B is. Go with B.
The race seems to be narrowing on Her with her Koch dollars, Ramaswamy as the wild card candidate, and Trump because the man’s ego is too large to leave the race even if he ends up in jail.
I think Ramaswamy will be the one to fizzle out next. He’s been trying to play the Trump handbook of just slinging out wild statements just to see how people respond, but it seems to be the only trick he has, and people are becoming bored of it.
Well what do you imagine then? Different third wheel or is it Trump V Halley with the establishment trying really hard to just force Halley, especially if Trump starts losing his cases.
Oddly enough, that’s all we ask for. Vote with your heart in the Primary. Be as passionate for change as you can be. But in the General, vote with your brain and for the Democrat. Tell yourself it’s a vote for the lesser evil. Tell yourself that any vote besides the winner of the Democratic Primary, whether that be Biden or somebody else, is a vote for Trump, just like it was in 2016 and 2020. And no matter how much you have to hold your breath while voting, make sure that in November of next year, that vote goes to the Democrat, whoever he is. That’s all we’re asking.
The best thing about Biden and Israel, is he’s doing nothing different than any other president since 1948. Trump was the one who moved the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem ffs.
He’s actually kinda better on Israel than previous presidents, he’s been negotiating the release of palestinians being held hostage in Israel, and has secured Gaza the right to access their own natural resources, which Israel had been blockading.
Almost like he’s actually doing the thing the left accused him of disregarding and using the US’ good terms with israel and israel’s dependency on the US as a negotiating tool to keep things as clean as possible without Israel going completely off the handle and doing something like firing a nuke out of feeling completely isolated.
It’s one of the things I really don’t understand about the argument. I can understand why people are upset with Biden, but yet yadda yadda yadda over the fact that Trump is literally running on a platform of being exponentially worse to them. Tell them they’re cutting off their own nose to spite their face, and they respond by sharpening the blade.
There’s an increasing number of people
Citation needed
I am throwing in the towel for now. I am hetro white uppermiddle class male of prot background and can quote the Bible better than most preachers. I am in zero danger. It is everyone else is who is fucked. The rest of this country can’t even bother to vote to save themselves from firing squads.
The funny thing with an outgroup is that it keeps growing. They’ll find something they don’t like about you.
On a long enough timeline we are all dead.
Difference is that on the good timeline, you die in your bed surrounded by your friends and family. In a bad timeline, you die at the rock mines as the Frog-Nazis whip your back. So I’m not sure I agree with you that this won’t affect you…
Hey I am an automation engineer I have you know I will die from being whipped by frog-nazis while making the machines that mine, not in the mine itself.
On the plus side at least I will live long enough to watch the 4chan Nazis/Catholics/Heritage foundation/evangelicals/Magas turn on each other. Murdering each other in the ashes of a civilization while they starve.
Turns out you can’t eat memes.
What is that supposed to mean? Who cares as long as you have your uppermiddle class life (which guess what, you won’t when they find something they don’t like about you). What a glib response.
Biden’s old and Israel is bad now, so clearly the obvious solution is to vote for a Trump dictatorship.
It’s full Bernie Bro logic too. Bernie didn’t get the nomination, so we’re voting for Trump.
These people don’t care about policies, only personalities.
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You know, they are not sleepwalking. Its pretty intentional. Hitler’s had a large following…in the United States. They even had a convention once.
You don’t understand. The right WANT to be ruled by a dictator.
And then they’ll have the most amount of rights!
The best/most powerful rights
The right is the minority in the U.S.
Republicans are a minority, but the right is the overwhelming majority. America has no mainstream left, its firmly center-right with a center-right party and a fascist party.
Sure, but my point is, Trump isn’t going to win because of some “Republican majority.”
Make no mistake…. They’re WIDE AWAKE and doing it.
“He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting”
– A real quote by a real Trump voter.
They know what they’re voting for, and will be so surprised when it happens to them too.
You mean conservatives and Christians aren’t already being hurt and targeted by this corrupt government? What rock do you live under?
I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it a million more times: the average American, who never received adequate education due to the erosion of the American education system over decades of Republican cuts, doesn’t know a damn thing about political ideology. “Fascism”? Is that like if you don’t like someone’s face?
Voting is now like voting for an act in the AGT show
I agree, 3rd party 2024!
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Making a lot of assumptions about my intentions here aren’t you?
I’ll go let my gov know they didn’t teach me enough “old-men-only” USA political theater.
🇵🇸 Enjoy the Military Industrial Complex I suppose 🇵🇸
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You are one of the people dangblingus was mentioning about the erosion of the Education System. Here, let me help out.
Suppose you’re voting in an election for who is going to be responsible for the Christmas Decorations this year. The rule is the person with the most votes wins. There are three candidates. One person thinks that Christmas is a commercialised holiday that sucks money out of you. He’s saying that the community should NOT put Christmas decorations up, and instead, put that money into the pockets of the homeowners. Let’s call him Mr. Bah Humbug. The other person LOVES Christmas, and wants to put up decorations. We’ll call him Jolly Saint Nick, but your big problem with him is that he isn’t that inclusive. You love Christmas decorations, but you think that he should put up decorations for other Winter holidays as well. And thus, you don’t want to vote for him. So you put yourself up as the alternative to Jolly Saint Nick. Let’s call you Progressive Jim. And you’re going to cause the entire community to get NOTHING. How? I’m getting to that.
The community is narrowly divided on the question of decorations. There are 200 people on your block. 99 of them want to keep the money in their pocket, while 101 want decorations in the community. The 99 are all unified. There’s not much room to debate specifics in that position. All 99 want to keep their $$$ in their pocket. So there’s no vote splitting there. But you have ALREADY split the vote in the 101 side. What happens if you and two other people vote for you? Well, 99 people are voting for keeping money in their pockets. 101 people wanting SOME sort of decoration, minus your three votes, equals 98. The final breakdown is 99 Bah Humbug, 98 Jolly Saint Nick, 3 Progressive Jim. Congrats! You just ensured that NONE of the 101 people who wanted Christmas Decorations get what they want. You let the Perfect (having inclusive holiday decorations) be the enemy of the Good (having any sort of holiday decorations), and now you get the worst outcome of all, nothing at all.
In this system, you have to come to a consensus you can deal with. All the people who want decorations are just going to have to come together and negotiate on the type of decorations, and the thing is that in a democracy, you don’t always get what you want. You have to settle with ‘good enough’ if you want to get anything done. Another analogy used here is voting is like taking the bus, not falling in love. If you insist that you must get EVERYTHING you want, in First Past the Post, you regularly get NONE of what you want, especially if you’re the ‘fall in love’ party like Progressives are, and you’re up against a “Fall in Line” party like the Republicans/Conservatives.
There are fixes. Maybe you make your voting a Ranked Choice system, so people can specify “my vote for a progressive holiday season not tied to Christmas is not a vote for no decorations at all. If I don’t get what I want, I’ll settle for uninclusive decorations, grudgingly.” But that’s not the system we have. And until we do, Nic Cage is right. All you’re doing here is ensuring we get the worst outcome.
As a German: “First time?”
As an American with mostly German heritage;
I’m scared!
First time the individual was still breathing by this point in the process.
Not sleepwalking but speed running fully awake.
The only reason that Convicted Rapist Treason Trump is “ahead” is swing state polls is because he spent huge sums of money on media commercials there and Biden has yet to spend money there because he doesn’t have a real primary. In America we have an advantage other countries didn’t/don’t have. A culture of valuing democracy and freedom that is literally as old as the country itself. We need to keep emphasizing how Convicted Rapist Treason Trump is a clear and present danger to our American core values.
They’re both historically unpopular candidates, Biden took his first hit after the Afghanistan pullout and never recovered from the low 40s of approval, took his 2nd hit with Israel and is trending downward still.
But we’re still gonna pick the non-dictator option by a huge popular vote margin. The other 40% are cheering the dictator.
The problem it’s the swing state morons, who either don’t bother voting or “protest” vote for some third party and end up enabling the fucking dictator. Those are the only possible sleepwalkers. And there really aren’t that many of them.
enabling the fucking dictator
Do you think it’s ironic how Hillary was so willing to drive them away by calling them deplorables, yet it only enabled them further by sloganizing the fact the Democrats hate them? I don’t see the rationality in both accepting you need more voters in these swing states, while simultaneously pushing them further away. Seems like this is part of the downward spiral.
Hillary Clinton was a fucking horrendous candidate and represented everything wrong with the Democrats. They should have put an honest to god progressive up there.
The Democrat superdelegates didn’t want Sander because he threatened to alter the economic arrangement of Democrat donors, aligning instead with popular politics. Hillary was more of a Democrat vision than a viable candidate. Biden is too but he succeeded relative to Trump’s failure.
the Afghanistan pullout
That’s the one Mr Trump started after a really bad plan, right?
Ultimately nobody wanted to take the L on that one, this goes back to Obama too. Everyone knew how fast it would fall and how bad it would look and when it was put on the table they delayed it, Trump included. IMO it’s one of the best things Biden did and showed his integrity on the topic, he was willing to be the loser and think about others, and go against the interests of the military contractors etc.
Biden actually took full credit and responsibility for that on a few occasions, I think he explicitly stated “this responsibility rests with me and me alone” or something to that effect. So “blaming” Trump for this good thing is ironically giving Trump credit.
The dictatorship supports the right wing policies so they support him.
…unless the justice department do their fucking jobs, nobody is above the law.
What is with these bullshit whiny articles? They literally voted against his dictatorship last cycle.
Stupid fear-mongering.
More dominoes lined up this go around.
More safe guards have eroded since 2020. The Republicans that did not fall to heel have been replaced.
Last time he had less of a plan, and less institutional support. Now they have lists of supporters to fill the non-elected positions -those were the people that who slowrolled and resisted his worst policies before.
I’d like to be more optimistic, but this isn’t going to be a fair fight and the stakes are higher.
And Tumbervill blocking military promotions was for one Reason. Remember the military higher ups were fundamental in stopping Trump from doing a lot of crazy dictator things.
but this isn’t going to be a fair fight
The 15th Amendment guarantees every American adult the right to vote and have their vote counted. Anybody who commits treason against our country will be going to prison along with Convicted Rapist Treason Trump. This will be very important since we will be setting up the standards for the future.
Gerrymandering, electoral college, voter suppression
We need to win by 5% just for a tie.
New polls that’s aren’t good.
He also refused to step down…
Trump is leading the election polls by a lot.
It isn’t even the election year.
I dunno, polls concerning if people like trump or not are highly unfavorable towards him
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/
Oh, those super reliable polls that have called the presidential election wildly incorrectly twice now?
Also, no they don’t.
All the polls show them tied at worst and Biden usually leading by a small percentage.
Show me your evidence.
The polls have not been wrong, both elections feel within the margin of error.
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That would probably lead to the absolute worst outcome - every time he opens his mouth he damages his rep further in the eyes of his followers, so we need him to keep doing that:-).
I don’t see how the assassination of a former president and current candidate would do anything good for the country. It might be a value add for our adversaries because it would certainly be destabilizing.
People are set on how they’ll vote and it isn’t up for debate.
If you have it in your mind that voting for trump is an option, there isn’t an argument on the planet that will sway you.
So it comes down to getting democrats to actually vote, and removing illegal barriers to them having voting access.
Most people are not even paying attention yet.
Can someone explain to me - European, why is Biden seen as bad president by republicans? I might be uninformed but what did he do exactly?
You could repeat all of the positions that a Republican claims to have, and if you tell them a Democrat said it, they’ll condemn it.
There’s no logic.
Reality doesn’t matter anymore. It’s just Fox screaming hatred and Facebook conspiracy theories. Watch some Fox or Tucker Carlson and you’ll understand. (NB I’m Canadian.)
Short answer? He became a Democrat. Literally, that’s the only reason they hate him.
Tribalism. Gotta love it, right? Is there room in Europe for 84 million Americans? 🤣
Nothing but that D (for Democrat) next to his name. If he was a republican with the exact same policies they would love him. Same with democrats and their opinion of a politician with an R next to their name.
The polls are deceiving, people won’t openly support Biden until after July 4, 2024.
Even worse, the media is doing the same.
