How alone am I in disliking the word “allistic”? To me it feels like an outgrowth of a persecution fetish, literally defining an outgroup. Especially since it has zero mainstream adoption, where “non-autistic” is immediately clear to anyone.
That discomfort, I believe, is the point. Flipping the labeling game on its head is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable with the label. That can be used later for empathy.
And labeling it a persecution fetish is projecting. And saying that the mainstream doesn’t accept it so we shouldn’t either is provocative in a post that says “don’t let mainstream lead you by the nose”.
I don’t always get there, but striving for clear language is being true to myself.
supposed to make you feel uncomfortable with the label. That can be used later for empathy.
That sounds manipulative and dishonest. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding. Might you explain how that works, from either an individual or societal perspective?
I agree we desperately need more awareness and empathy, but I don’t see how adding more synonyms that feel exclusionary helps.
Yeah, this is the same approach that labelling majority as CIS-gender is. Sure, smart and empathetic people realize and recognize what it’s trying to highlight, but others will find it offensive and irritating before, if at all, coming to a conclusion.
The problem with this psychological approach is that it’s projecting to bring down others / the out group, instead of attempting to elevate the disadvantaged straight. It creates a faux us vs them tribalism where there was none before.
Does ‘straight’ (or heterosexual) fall in the same category?
It may have before. I wouldn’t know, because when those terms came to be used were before my time.
Cis is just latin for “the same side”. You just are cisgender, the same as an isomer can be cis.
If you read my comment, that’s not my point. I know what it means. I’m talking about the labelling an out group in an offensive manner to create more division and tribalism.
Edit: I’m not saying the word “cisgender” is offensive. I’m saying that the act of labelling is.
Kurzgesagt has a really good new video on how easily our mind is tricked into categorizing people based on labels, which is amplified by social media, creating an us vs them mindset where the individual is less likely to align with the other side even on things that they would otherwise.
As fun as Kurzgesagt is I don’t think following them on politics is a good move. They are primarily a science channel. They also have potential conflicts of interest given who they are funded by.
We have been labelled in many offensive ways for a long time. Allistic isn’t meant to be any more offensive than the word autistic is. I have never seen it being used in a deliberately offensive manner the way autistic is often used in an offensive manner. If neurotypical people are scared about such a label that tells you more about them than it does about us and how they treat people they view as different than them.
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“Neurotypical” is the more appropriate word anyway
not really. Allistic is the opposite to autistic while NT is the opposite to ND. As Neurodiversity covers (much) more than just autism, allistic is more precise when the topic is specifically autism.
Yeah I agree with that. I will, however, point out that it means basically the same thing as the word normal. Context does matter as much as being understood as meaning non-autistic.
The whole of human experience is a spectrum, anyhow. Neurotypical just means this small peak of the bell curve society deems ‘normal’, but even then, lots of people in that group wouldn’t be considered ‘normal’ if they were honest with themselves.
Those terms do help people outside that definition, though, because they help identify and contextualise the friction they feel in society, and defining is a crucial first step towards understanding, acceptance, and learning how to overcome obstacles.
These words aren’t really for the benefit of neurotypical people, so they can seem unnecessary. They’re *often not, though.
(I’d never heard the word in the OP, and I agree it’s superfluous. We already have several words for it.)
e: added a word
Not to mention it’s pretty similar to autistic. Infact I first read it as autistic and got pretty confused reading the post.
I feel like it can be over used, but generally I like it, it fills a lexical niche for me. I could use non autistic, but that feels clunky. Sometimes it’s useful to talk about non autistic people’s experiences in relation to autistic people, and sometimes I want to talk about autistic experiences in relation to allistic experiences, so I may prefer a term like allistic.
A thing that feels similar to me is the word allosexual, which means not asexual. I guess I would identify as being on the ace spectrum, but not ace (I’m demisexual), so allosexual is often a useful word
Neurotypical is the word most people use instead of non-autistic.
Which is also dumb, assuming there is a “typical” brain.
Although true, neurotypical more means close to average. Don’t think of typical as a single thing, but more an average of collective experiences.
Confirmed, neurotypical people are totally mental too.
Normal is fine. I’ll keep saying normal. I’m not normal, and I’m well aware of that.
Norms are oppressive
How is “non-autistic” not an outgroup but “allistic” is?
Which foot is the shoe on again?
I wear shoes on both of my feet.
Stop saying allistic, it’s really silly.
Neurotypical is honestly a better word
Neurotypical means they have 0 mental conditions/disorders, allistic just means not autistic
Wouldn’t it be aautistic or non-autistic anyway?
Maybe anautistic because autistic starts with a vowel. Or using the same logic with abnormal, we could say abautistic.
An allistic narcissist is not a neurotypical.
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100% it’s just an attempt to pathologize being “normal”, the same way some people use “neurodivergent” to mean that suffering from autism, ADHD, or other whatever is just a difference of opinion rather than a life-altering condition.
Talk about projection, holy shit.
So let’s just recap - you think that being referred to in a similar way as how you refer to autistic people makes you sound sick. And you find it insulting to be spoken about as if you were the equal of an autistic person?
I’m not “neurotypical”
You’re certainly not neurorevolutionary
I’m just tired of suffering through a disability and seeing it minimized as if it were just a casual difference of experience.
Normies.
Typical allist.
aka typical neurotypical lol
imagine an atypical neurotypical
Allistic and neueotypical don’t mean the same. You can be allistic and still be neurodivergent.
I agree. My comment was more a humorous play with words trying to be paradoxical.
Also who the fuck is calling autistic people too sensitive? This image is like victim fetishizing.
I don’t know about all autistic people, but over 75% of the people I’ve had a considerable relationship with have called me too sensitive at some point. It’s one of the hallmarks of being me: waiting for the moment someone calls me too sensitive. The other is being called an asshole because I apparently made some implication I was completely unaware of.
Same. This is exactly what happens to me. Along with letting someone know at the beginning of a friendship that “hey sometimes people perceive me as an asshole or overly sensitive” and getting “oh I don’t think you seem like that at all” only for them to tell me I’m an asshole or sensitive months later… and I don’t feel like I’ve changed how I act at all in that time
First time ive heard it. I genuinely dont mind it. Its a bit odd but its fun.
Is it pronounced or-listic or al-istic?
I imagine that depends on your accent.
So if that’s a thing, do neurotypicals have allism?
you’re entirely right. allistic is silly. i think it’s slightly worse than silly though. i have two takes on this.
my first take is that you shouldn’t slur people.
my second is that if you’re gonna slur someone anyway, don’t be a chicken; just slur them. hiding behind “allistic” is a little bit like hiding behind “youths”, or “fruity”, or “welfare scroungers”, or “special”, or when people do that thing where they go “…she… oh sorry i mean he” (and vice-versa). it’s either a dogwhistle, or dogwhislte-adjacent. we all know what the speaker is implying when they uses these terms. you’re just slurring someone without the confidence necessary to do so.
this is why i unironically use normie (on the internet). sometimes i want to be rude about it, y’know? am in the wrong to slur like this? yes, absolutely. whilst i might use normie in the context of venting, it still doesn’t make it right. but at least i’m not being a coward about my position by hiding behind “allistic”
sometimes, especially when i’m chatting amongst autistics, it’s easier to casually write “when normies do x it upsets me, how about you?” instead of writing formal prose like “Oh I must say! These dastardly Neurotypicals have a particular behaviour pattern that troubles my mind… Do tell me how you bear the burden of such travesties.”.
doing the formal thing is tiring, and sometimes i don’t want to be the better person. 😎👍
Allistic is the polite, non-derogatory way to refer to a normie
Also how are any of these things autistic traits? I’m sitting here chewing my tongue raw for the last 5 years and haven’t gone outside since, have no interest in socialization and have misphonia yet watch asmr. I’m not autistic.
How do you know you’re not autistic vs undiagnosed vs misdiagnosed vs the definition of autistic is too vague?
Who the fuck cares? Are you really that fragile?
allistic
the what now
Non autistic people.
The term you’re looking for is “Neurotypical”
There are plenty of allistics who are not neurotypical.
Offended by a label now are you?
Can I get a “LANGUAGE IS FLUID” from my normies?
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Basically no one knows the term allistic.
Yet I’m supposed to keep up with “yeet” and “sneed” and whatever the fuck memers have scooped out of their cranial mush-puddles this month?
Hey, dude, scrub, cool, hanging out, psyched, what’s up, puke, and scoop were all once just slang words. Yet here we are, and they are pretty commonly used today.
Sorry but a lot slang becomes general speech, so there’s no reason to resist it.
But where does it come from? Regardless, sounds funny so I’m all for it.
Auto/allo come from the ancient Greek words for self/other. It’s one of those pairs like cis/trans, hypo/hyper, in/ex, etc.
I wonder if it’s alright to call myself or others “hella allistic”.
tfw you have alltism
I’m thinking of all these greentexts that talk about how OP has autism and imagining their alternative scenario where they have altism.
of course, it’s a spectrum
Some dumbass
Image Transcription: Tumblr
lifeinautismworld
“Autistic people are too sensitive.”
Meanwhile, here’s a list of things that offend allistic people.
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not making eye contact
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wanting to be left alone
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not wanting to take part in a conversation
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using the wrong tone
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showing the wrong amount of excitement
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pointing instead of using words
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not wanting to be touched
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not wanting to eat certain foods
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wearing earplugs around other people
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stimming in a way that does not affect anyone else
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not following traditions
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questioning their authority
Good human
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If I’m making eye contact with you, I have no idea what you’re saying.
… Um.
Well. This post has been eye opening and maybe a little disturbing.
Anyway I work in sales and eye contact is a must. I find it really hard to pay any attention to what people are saying when I’m looking at them but I’ve practiced enough that there’s, like, a subroutine in my brain that that picks out the relevant information in a conversation while I consciously am not really engaged in a meaningful way. I’ll ask the right questions and it seems like I’m paying attention but I’m really just running on auto pilot.
I’ll finish a video conference or in person meeting thanking God for transcription software because I can’t recall a fucking thing they talked about.
I’ve realized in life that nobody cares about what’s actuallly happening. They are about what looks like it’s happening. I don’t understand it and I never will but everyone wants you to lie to them, constantly. So just give the people what they need.
Once I realized this life got a lot smoother.
Mind you, I hate talking to lawyers, consultants and salespeople who do that (and they’re plenty) and I’m developing aversion to meeting new ones because of it. If you ever suspect your client is autistic, consider the possibility of not actually caring about eye contact, because they’ll probably prefer that.
Oh I’ve practiced so much, I can focus now. I have to meet a lot of “strangers” every day for my job.
Also, I got a book called “how to win friends and influence people”. I’ve been practicing all the techniques the book teaches on people and it absolutely works. I haven’t read a book since high school. It’s very well written!
Edit: the book specifically talks about sales a lot. That book is especially useful for sales.
This kind of talk is counterproductive.
Humans are social creatures. There has almost always been some sort of social norm across all of history. Likewise, there has almost been judgement of people who break social norms.
People with Autism have, among other things, trouble following those social norms. Ultimately a lot of the things we do could be considered offensive. The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance.
Meanwhile a lot of ways that autistic people are sensitive in are pretty alien and jarring. There’s a lack of emotional regulation that often leads to disproportionate outbursts. There are sensory issues that can lead to relatively benign things causing said outbursts. There are a ton of things that are simply more disruptive than a neurotypical person getting miffed that someone doesn’t make eye contact.
The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for tolerance.
Or, you know, I can demand the reasonable accommodations that are my human right.
It seemed like that commenter was saying “ask for tolerance for disproportionate outbursts.” It seems like you’re saying others accommodating your meltdowns is a human right. Is that what you’re saying?
No, don’t be silly. But an environment where I can do my job without exceeding my sensory tolerance certainly is my human right. If it can be attained with reasonable accommodations.
That’s not my opinion. That’s the law in most of the developed world.
I’m sure that’ll go well.
The important part is to increase awareness that Autism is a disability and to ask for
toleranceunderstanding and accommodation.I try to help.
If we’re using the language of disability, ‘understanding and accommodation’ seems to afford its subjects a degree of dignity. We tend not to ask for ‘tolerance’ on behalf of the disabled, after all.
That’s fair.
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Neurotypicals don’t self isolate in prosperous communities they overwhelming interact with people just only other rich people. The rich as a general rule if thumb go to extremes to avoid interacting with people of a lower socioeconomic status why do you think first class and private planes are a thing?
Yes we do. I’m doing it, many coworkers are doing it. It’s great.
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If you’ve really got it, you never ever flaunt it. That’s how you lose it
Are you saying you think everyone hates having friends?
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Considering a shit ton of people took the pandemic as an excuse to avoid people including me is not actually that unusual. We only socialize for survival.
Meh, we have the dance club crowd and the sports fan crowd. I’m part of neither (and sports fans share too many similarities to fanatic religious militants for my tastes) but I understand them.
Introverts are underrepresented in society, but I think this is due to extroverts dominating politics and industrial upper management so polities tend to favor extroverted behaviors.
Also while extroverts enjoy social behavior, they do not enjoy toxic social interaction, as is typical in the workplace. No one wants to be micromanaged and bullied and humiliated by their bosses. I think this figures largely in the telecommuting conflict going on right now.
Well put. Ultimately this debate comes down to a desire to cover the world in leather rather then wear shoes.
Increased acceptance of autistic people almost universally a good thing (with very specific and few exceptions). The trouble is that the entire rest of the world can’t be psychologists who happen to be experts in understanding every condition.
I agree that people should educate themselves where possible. As much right as autistic adults have to be themselves, other people have the right to form opinions with regard to adherence to social norms.
I think it’s fine to acknowledge the unfortunate truth that autistic people have to live in a society designed around the needs of people who are unlike them in important ways. Saying so shouldn’t diminish their responsibility to try to function in society as best they can despite this challenge.
To an extent, it’s a matter of perspective. We can easily conceive of a society where the things that “normal” people do are considered alien and jarring. If they had to constantly suppress their fundamental nature the way autistic people do, they might not seem so natural and healthy.
I don’t think they are all the same, and not all of them cause “offence”.
“using the wrong tone” is by definition wrong, so of course it will cause confusion and irritation.
Same with pointing instead of using your words, like how the fuck am I supposed to know what you mean by pointing lol
Evidently, this is a divisive and emotional topic. Still, we’re happy that we are talking about it because it’s certainly important to us in the community. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be so heated about it. At the same time, we’d like to keep the discussion respectful. It’s completely fine to express your opinions as long as they aren’t explicitly violating any of the rules, especially promoting hate. It’s respectful and effective to disagree with someone over a passionate topic without calling them offensive names. There is no need to personally attack anyone or a group, and we do not want to maintain a space that is used for creating hateful division.
Remember, we’re here to discuss all matters related to autism, have a place where we can freely be autistic without having to mask, and ultimately create a community. It’s understandable to get heated over topics, but try to remember that you’re responding to another person that may feel emotional about the matter as well.
In other words, please practice human decency.
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I can’t be the only one tired of the whole, “neurodivergent” crap.
I have ADHD, it’s a disability. I’m not **special**, I’m just fucking broken. Sure, it’s a more depressing take, but it’s more realistic.
Personally I find this form of thinking far more dangerous: I come from a country in which being “mentally disabled” would literally mean me being unable to function in polite society, and being a “retard” is something pretty common, even with adults. The fact I was undiagnosed autistic until I left saved me. Sure you don’t function like everyone else, and yeah, it’s hard - trust me -, but to say you’re broken is basically undermining everyone else that has the same condition as you.
I can see how that can be true in your circumstances. But, in a society where resources are available to you, the social model often leads people to turn down medications and accommodations, because the need and use of them seems unfair. (General “you” use ahead) And that only makes your life worse, given that you don’t live in that ideal society you built in your head.
First off those people don’t actually understand the social model of disability. The whole point is society makes it harder to get along because of disability or difference and the lack of acceptance and accomodation. If that same society offers aid you should generally take it. At least that’s my understanding.
You are also starting with the assumption that there is actually help for adults with disabilities like autism and ADHD. The truth is there isn’t that help available in many societies. Calling yourself “broken” isn’t going to change that fact.
anyone who is willing to seek help has to pay the consequences
Neurodivergent is a middle ground. Our wiring is abnormal in some (or many) ways.
We are broken in the same way a tank is a really shitty car. If all you do is drive the roads, it will seem that way. However, it can go places that a car simply can’t. Critically, this doesn’t make it any less shitty on the roads. Nore let you suddenly become a car. You’re a tank, and stuck as one.
This is different to being broken however. We are forced to adapt to our unusual brain wiring. Some people unfortunately can’t. Others can mask, but find it exhausting.
I’m personally reasonably lucky. I have ADHD and autism. My life was pretty shitty till I learnt not to follow the expectations of others. I now have a family, an interesting job, and hobbies I enjoy. My life is still far from perfect, but it’s not broken, it just felt that way.
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Just because something is a disability doesn’t mean you can’t call it neurodivergent. It’s just a broader term that means that you’re different.
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ADHD isn’t a disability for everyone. Plenty of people function fine with it.
Just to be clear, something is called a disorder when it affects your ability to do everyday things.
If you function fine, it’s literally not ADHD. “Disorder starts at impairment”
Disorder ~= disability, maybe “function” wasn’t the right word on it’s own. Function enough that it’s not a disability, but still a disorder.
You give too much credit to psychiatric ideas. Someone can be different from the norm in ways that constitute neurodivergence and be oppressed because of them without being disabled necessarily. Lots of people are only considered disabled because society wasn’t designed for them.
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Hey. Pretty sure I have undiagnosed ADHD (literally sitting in waiting room to talk to a therapist as I write this), and I feel like there’s a bit more than just being broken. We’re only “broken” because we don’t conform to the currently agreed upon norms. The world isn’t designed for us. And the quicker we can realize that and make personal and societal adaptations to make these “breaks” more standard, well, we’ll all be better off.
My issue is how some people put so much emphasis on societal changes and ideas like “I’m not broken, society is”. Then they just live without any personal adaptations (medications, coping mechanisms, etc) bc “I’m not broken”. Worse, some look down at those who do take medications and try to adapt to the realities of our current society.
You can take some personal responsibility while also acknowledging that at least the majority of the reason this is even an issue is due to external things, i.e. societal expectations.
How’d the appointment go?
Went well, mostly intake stuff. Got another in 2 weeks .
Hello, random Lemmitor! Have you downvoted the comment from Ookami38 because you feel it isn’t true? You know nothing about the life experience of the user who wrote it, so you’re using your limited, finite knowledge to invalidate someone else’s perspective. Before you jump into concluding that people who use the term neurodivergency to refer to themselves to cope, have you stopped to consider if your irrational rejection of the possibility that a neurodivergent person feeling fine about their condition or who they are is not your own mechanism to cope?
I… Why am I called out in that post? Like legit confused, I’ve been disconnected since I posted it so was I like, massively downvoted or something? Regardless yeah, I agree with what youre saying, for the most part.
Dude, most of the comments are trying to be supportive of this guy. I’m pretty sure we’ve all felt broken when we were diagnosed. I thought I was unlovable and would never have friendships or a partner, and eight years later I just celebrated my five year anniversary. Shit gets better, but not if you stay on the cycle of thinking you’re just broken and it will always stay like that. Whether you want to believe that or not, that’s your prerogative.
I would like to clarify, that despite feeling broken, I do see the hope in medication, knowledge and understanding, and coping mechanisms. Not to mention a loving and supporting wife, who also has her own issues… but we work out to about 1.5 fully functioning adults together, so that’s nice.
Viewing ADHD and other disorders purely by the social model, at least as I hear many talk about it, completely disregards any need for medication and accommodation, and just puts the emphasis on society to change. And I think that’s just wrong, like, I understand the idea of the social model, but people take it too far. Use it as an aspirational guide to a better society, don’t dismiss the aides that help people function in today’s society because you feel they shouldnt be needed in the first place.
I was complaining about the downvotes that Ookami38’s comment received. Perhaps you misunderstood me?
Sorry, the comment said “have you down voted the comment above” and I thought you were referring to him being non understanding of the original root commentor. My bad.
To be fair I was also confused, but I didn’t realize my post had apparently gotten downvoted at the start. All good.
No worries. I guess it wasn’t clear enough, so I edited my comment. Have a good day.
Ah cool, this post answers my question above lol. Thanks for the support.
This. It’s not a pity party, but it is a justification for medication, and for giving a little bit of understanding.
I really relate to your comment, and one of the most rage inducing experiences I’ve ever had was someone lecturing me on how I shouldn’t call myself disabled, and then they badly explained the social model of disability to me.
However, I also find neurodivergent a useful term because I think that what we understand as disability is limited by our current world view. An example that feels analogous to me is how colonialist empires dismissed the art, culture and knowledge of indigenous peoples because they projected their preconceived values onto them.
I think that there’s a lot we don’t understand about autism, and how heavily normative society is holds us back. There are things that I am great at that feel inextricably linked to my autism. That doesn’t negate all the difficulties I also experience, but the word “neurodivergent” and the conversations that have developed around it feel it carves out space where I can lean into my autistic traits in situations where they’re strengths without having to be “super-autistic”; but also I can struggle in ways that neurotypical people can’t fathom, and it isn’t viewed as “negating” my strengths.
A large part of this is because the first chunk of my adult life, I broke myself by trying to act overly neurotypical, and like many autistics, I found that masking to this degree was unsustainable. Now, I’m much closer to a balance where I can pick my battles and not force myself to be something I’m not - like having tinted glasses for the office instead of expecting myself to somehow cope with my light hypersensitivity. In many ways, it feels like a different mode of being altogether - “wellness” for me looks different to “wellness” to a neurotypical, and I’d wager that “wellness” for you and other people in this thread would look closer to my version than the neurotypical version.
That being said, I agree that the way that people talk about stuff like ADHD and autism feels icky as hell. Personally, I find it more depressing to pretend that I’m not disabled, because actually, ignorance isn’t bliss when I can’t run from my reality. Sometimes things just suck, and they’re hard, and pretending otherwise makes it harder to cope with because it’s implicitly saying “I’m lying to myself because the truth is untenable”.
Thanks, yeah, you did a great job of putting it more eloquently than I had. 100% agree.
Same with me, but I don’t have ADHD but depression. I know I’m not normal and it’s not okay to be like me, guess what, telling me that in fact is ok to be a mental fucking mess doesn’t make it better.
🤷 It’s about the social model of disability. It’s certainly incomplete, but it’s not wrong.
I’m just fucking broken.
that is literally every human on this planet. just because someone doesn’t have a mental divergence from perceived norm doesn’t mean they aren’t broken.
I disagree, we’re all different, but “disorder starts at impairment” and impairments come in various degrees.
To think of it this way, seems to say that “we all struggle” and the very next thought for many would be “why do you need and get medication/accommodation?” Or maybe the inverse “why don’t I get…?”
I guess there’s an argument to be had there, especially with the second form of the question.
A bit of an asshole, medication Bit boring, medication Don’t run fast, prosthetic Kinda ugly, surgery Short, surgery
just because someone doesn’t have a mental divergence from perceived norm doesn’t mean they aren’t broken.
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Yeah and there are high suicide rates among neurodivergent people, including people with autism having a 9x higher chance of dying by suicide.
You could say the same thing about trans people but you wouldn’t call that “being broken”.
Why wouldn’t I?
Because it’s incredibly transphobic? Can you not understand how an oppressed group might be more depressed or suicidal while still not being inherently wrong or broken because of how society treats them?
I kind of get you have frustrations with the social model of disability because of how some people use it. You maybe need to look into things like the holistic model of disability. That’s all fairly reasonable until now. Your last comment I am replying to is taking the piss. It reeks of not understanding how privilege and oppression in general works as well as transphobia specifically.
Well, Tbf I do see the obvious correlation between oppression and depression. So that was a poor choice of fact to try to demonstrate any point.
And maybe I’m kinda “taking a piss” with the last comment, because I leave it to be interpreted widely.
Disability and disorder are clearly complex topics, but I also think I can believe that ADHD and Transexuality are flaws in the human genome, and I feel I can hold that thought without being transphobic. We’re all still people, living the lives we were given, trying to make the most of it.
Where accommodations can exist, they should, we should allow people to transition sex, and augment their brain with drugs in order to live a life they feel happier about.
The social cost for accommodating trans is simply recognizing peoples preferred pronouns, and not being hateful or doing anything to impede their life.
To accommodate ADHD is to re-architect much of society altogether. Conversation norms, collaboration expectations, methods of instruction/education, public transit needing to be much better (cuz ADHDers are much more likely to get into crashes and many shouldn’t drive un-medicated) etc etc etc
So in that regard I guess I’d say that while I see both as broken, or at least disfuntional, though ADHD much more so socially, and trans more individually impeded (as of yet, no natural conception, must take hormone supplements, etc).
Trust that I at very least have a lifetime, well part of one, of experience with oppression and lack of privilege as the only people with a “heritage” but not a race to our own (in the US) and as a person w ADHD, and as lower class.
I could probably do with some more theoretical knowledge on the topic though. I’ll look into the holistic model.
-written on my phone bc I can’t be bothered to grab my laptop, but also this makes it harder to proofread, re-read context, and generally form responses at the best of my capabilities. This and many responses may or may not come from a medicated version of me, and as a result may have significantly more or less care put into their crafting. And idk, other ADHD related disclaimers. Accommodate me, bitch. Jk, kinda.
I don’t which reality you are from but I don’t think society or many of the neurotypicals that inhabit it are actually functional in the reality I come from. To me the whole system is broken to varying degrees for everyone and is perpetuated by broken people. I know you have said before that you don’t think NTs are broken, I disagree. I think anyone who is complicit in our current world must be broken in some sense. We only accept the sometimes rather transparent flaws of NT people only because they are the majority.
Lots of accomodations that help ND people would also help some or all NTs as well. It’s the same as how adding lifts and ramps for disabled people also helps the elderly, or people who are moving goods on a trolley. NT people have off days too and I think they could use some leniancy. I also think that rather than try to create one method of education and socialising that works for everyone we should have different options available for different people. We should meet people where they are rather than trying to build a compromised system and bend people to fit that system. This is why I believe we should have a neurodivergent culture/subculture like we have for LGBTQ+ people with things like gay bars. I wouldn’t even be against setting up entire societies or countries for various oppressed groups including the neurodivergent, LGBTQ, and physically disabled the same way we setup Israel for Jews (only this time without committing genocide against Palestine). Unfortunately society just isn’t setup that way under Kyriarchy.
As for medication: ADHD drugs are essentially performance enhancers. I am a druggie at heart so I have no issue with people NT or ND doing drugs to increase their performance or for recreation. I do have a problem with people being coerced into doing drugs just because it makes them behave more like an average or “normal” person.
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Can you get me a # on chance of a neurodivergent person becoming a famous inventor, artists, etc?
It wasn’t my mom, dad, sister, nor me so far. But hey, at least none of us have killed ourselves. So that’s nice.
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I blogged, late at night… And wanted a unique username even if not completely accurate
I check too many boxes here
That’s because most of those are super normal things that almost nobody cares about.
Same…
I’m offended that you think I don’t question authority.
I take the reason you say this is cause your not on the spectrum?
Most things neurodivergent are actually stuff thats normal and common. Like needing some alone time, but its the degree of intensity, persevering need for those things that make it fit outside the norm.
A fun fact, we have a lot of ties to the roots of the lgbt community. Something about not letting norms and tradition decide how you should think and act. To be different often isn’t a choice and the right for us to exist differently is a matter of survival.
Why can’t we just be ourselves, without NTs imposing judgement on us? Sometimes I feel like I’m expected to act NT, when I feel like it shouldn’t be a big deal. It’s very frustrating for me. So what if I don’t know how to add to a conversation, or if I avoid eye contact, or if I don’t like people trying to make eye contact with me for too long? Can’t I just share that I’m autistic, and be given my own autonomy? I really don’t like when NT standards are imposed on me. It makes me angry.
99% nobody is judging you.
I’ve been trying that maintain eye contact thing, how to they do that? Doesn’t’t the constant screaming in their heads hurt them?
You’ve probably heard this already but, in case you haven’t, try watching their eyebrows or right above them instead. It’s a lot less awkward for some people for reasons I don’t completely understand.
Remember to look away for a moment every ten seconds or so unless you’re trying to seduce or intimidate them! It becomes a routine after awhile. Also, humans are really weird.
Omg, never heard that before, thank you.
I do 5 on, 2 off for eye contact timing. It seems to work pretty well in terms of passing as nt and focusing on the task of timing it reduces the discomfort of eye contact in the first place for me
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Nah, it’s significantly harder to hear someone f2f if their face isn’t pointed towards yours. It’s also hard to keep track of where they are if they’re behind you, which is why people usually have the instinct to turn around whenever a sound source pans left to right behind them or gets closer. Evolutionary advantage
As an allistic person, I don’t get any screams in my head when I make eye contact and may not understand what you’re referring to. Intense awkwardness?
Prolomged eye contacts may make some allistic people feel awkward, but generally it’s a positive experience of nonverbal communication.
Are you saying making eye contact while talking makes you feel good?
From another autistic person, it really varies from person to person. I despise staring intensely at strangers, but when it comes to my partner, I adore it. It probably has to do more with the level of trust than inherently not being able to look at someone in the eyes, but it might just be a me thing.
Yes, for as long as it’s not an angry or otherwise negative look.
That is wild! I’m eye contact neutral - it doesn’t affect me at all, save with my partner where it IS enjoyable, so I had to learn not to stare people down. I never imagined people enjoyed it with other people! Thanks for blowing my mind.
I think maybe they don’t have the screaming <.< NTs are weird.
ah yes because my teenage neighbor is going to be very angry at me if I don’t follow traditions
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Do you live near the Gaza strip?
Kinda burying the lede here. They are all different forms of “questioning their authority”
I dont agree it’s about authority at all. This entire list is about showing disrespect for someone and expecting them to be OK with it.
To allistic people, everything on this list is insulting behavior that will offend them (except not wanting to eat certain foods).
This behavior will work fine with autistic people though. But you can’t expect it to work with allistic people.
Different brains equals different expectations of what is acceptable social behavior. That’s it.
not everyone is offended by these behaviors. what’s more insulting is lumping all autistic people together, and lumping all non-autistic people together assuming that they all feel the same way. it’s THAT sort of behavior that makes people turn on the other.
I know what you mean but it’s hard to talk about these things without generalizing, since we can’t ask everyone on the planet how they feel.
It’s super easy actually! You just qualify your statements. For example:
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I don’t like how some people…
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I’ve noticed that a lot of people…
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There’s quite a few people that…
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The majority of people seem to…
This language avoid assumptions about how everyone else feels and leaves the reader an out to say to themselves, “I’m not in that group and they acknowledge that I am an exception.” It avoids the trap of over generalization and doesn’t put the reader on the defensive. Language like “all people” and “allistic people” (meaning all non-autistic people) only work to alienate. Ironically it demonstrates the same behavior they appear to be complaining about…
Ok sure, but another way would be to realize that when me or someone else says “autistic people”, we mean “my experience with autistic people”.
Since obviously I haven’t met all autistic people in the world, and obviously I don’t speak for all. I have an opinion based in my experience. In fact, everything I write is based on my personal experience.
When you write something to me here on Lemmy, I read it as “your opinion about x” without you have to tell me that in every single post. It’s a bit smarter to think about posts that way I believe.
Maybe don’t generalize a group of people without careful thought and appropriate caveats then? Seems pretty easy to me. You even admit that you are writing from personal experience, and don’t have perfect information, so why not include precise language to reflect that? Seems pretty simple and way more inclusive.
Like I said previously, using precise language simply avoids putting readers that are a part of whatever group on the automatic defensive. Why not just take the extra couple of a seconds to avoid that miscommunication? If you don’t care to do that, then that’s fine, but over generalization is going to automatically alienate some readers that you perhaps didn’t mean to offend.
Yeah I don’t want to offend anyone but at the same time, I don’t want to go through the steps you mentioned in every single post where I express an opinion.
So I think I will have to be OK with some people being offended by me not specifically explaining that I don’t speak for everyone.
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That is literally everyone. Everyone’s brain runs on assumptions. Every model is wrong, but some are useful.
Yeah well when “respect” means “micro managing myself to glorify someone else because they demand it”, then yeah. I’m disrespectful as fuck. Anyone who demands I show my belly so they can feel like they’re in charge can kindly go fuck themselves. They’re not in charge. Nobody gets that special pampering from me.
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I’m really struggled with figuring out how anything on that list has anything to do with “dominance”.
Eh, these kind of people are always throwing tantrum no matter agreed or refused playing their dominance games, i personally try to avoid such people, filter out negativity and only keep positivity, also i relate strongly to your comment
I just told you it’s not about dominance or authority, but sure, you probably think it is, since your response is immature and ridiculous.
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He’s trying to play one of those dominance or authority games.
people get right indignant when encountering someone else’s food choices.
i hear the difference between an allergy and an intolerance as if that changes the amount of suffering endured.
