Conducting a little bit of an experiment with this discussion… when you hear the term “finesse” (typically in a derogatory manner), which teams from across the decades spring to mind?
Chiefs 2020 the Bucs bullied them
Maybe the niners from like a year or 2 ago when Deebo was more used (or less hurt) in their offense?
What is even ‘finesse’?
I heard this lots about 90s teams throughout all sports including the Los Angeles Kings.
2017-19 rams
I think of the 2002 Bucs (in a good way.) They were a smallish defense that relied on speed and smarts to beat opposing offenses, and they were great at it. But if the Raiders had chosen to run the ball down their throats in the Super Bowl (instead of Gannon passing it all over the place,) they’d have been steamrolled.
Bills in the 90’s - the NFC was just more physical those years
2008/2009 Cardinals.
Greatest Show on Turf. Every play they ran was fucking pretty. Holt, Bruce, and Faulk were the definition of finesse. Even Orlando Pace moved like Fred Astaire.
Greatest Show on Turf
My thought too - but the defense was good and Marshall Faulk could smash if/when he needed to.
I actually kind of disagree, people forget those teams were dominant in run defense
Greatest show on turf, 2000s colts, 2010s saints, 2020s bengals
That era Saints feasted on screen passes, which could be argued to be the definition of finesse.
Why do you say 2020’s bengals? Interested to hear your take on it.
Because they are a finesse team. So much of the offense is predicated on timing routes and coordination between Burrow and his receivers. All the back shoulders he throws are a perfect example of a finesse game. They also struggle mightily when played by a more physical defense as we’ve seen against the Ravens the past 2 years.
Greatest Show on Turf, and I say that as a Rams fan. That was my favorite football team ever but they would classify as a finesse team (although no football team is really a finesse team). Early 90s run and shoot Oilers maybe? Late 80s SF?
yah, 80s Niners teams definitely had a finesse label. not sure it was deserved because the defense was actually pretty nasty with Ronnie Lott and co. leading it
but the offense with its precision routes and timing throws definitely got hit with the finesse tag. particularly because they usually went up against some real dirt nasty defenses like chicago, new york, washington, etc. in the playoffs
The broncos when they got smoked by the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. It doesn’t help they played one of the most physical teams ever. Also just the way manning had to throw looked soft.
That whole Manning offense that year was bullshit crossing routes. They were fucking pick plays. It worked all year until they played a defense where the cornerbacks just fucking held and dared the refs to throw flags. Broncos had zero answers that day.
It worked all year until they played a defense where the cornerbacks just fucking held and dared the refs to throw flags.
That Super Bowl was a matchup of a Broncos offense that committed illegal offensive pass interference every play and a Seahawks defense that committed just about every penalty they thought they could get away with.
What most people forget (or didn’t even see) was that in the AFC Championship Game 2 weeks prior to that Super Bowl, Welker went and fucking speared Aqib Talib and knocked him out of the game on an illegal pick, no flag. Broncos were the healthier team going into that game anyway and would have won anyway, but for the Pats to lose their best and most physical corner to a cheap shot with no flag early essentially sealed the victory before halftime. Watching the Seahawks beat the shit out of the Broncos was cathartic after watching Denver get away with that garbage all year to set records.
I mean I know I’ll sound like a homer but they didn’t always hold. They played within the rules. The NFL DID change and tighten those rules right after, by the way. But the LOB were still amazing then too.
To say a defense with Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Bobby Wagner, KJ Wright, Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Chris Clemons, Red Bryant, Brandon, Brandon Browner etc won that game because they held is silly. It was an unbelievably, insanely stacked defense. The only defensive starter who wasn’t pro bowl caliber at the very least was SB MVP Malcolm Smith.
Damn, I forgot just how stacked that defense was. Everyone talks about the secondary, but all three levels were about as good as I’ve ever seen.
Well you better shield your eyes, because I feel the same way about the 2017 Jags defense.
Campbell, Jackson, Ngakoue, and Fowler on the line. Smith, Jack, and Pos at linebacker. Ramsey, Bouye, Church, and Gipson in the secondary. Pro-Bowlers and All-Pros at every level.
I did some football tourism that year and saw a Seahawks game in Seattle as a neutral fan. That defense was unbelievable. I didn’t mean to imply that they only won because they fouled all day. They certainly had the talent on defense to execute. But you’re not going to hold up with slow cornerbacks against pick plays unless you move to a zone, which Manning would eat up. So they played man and held. It worked great.
2011 Packers. We got most of our points through the air. Our run game was inessential. We didn’t have the backs to ground and pound and wear down a defense.
It’s funny I was thinking the current dolphins
I think this is a great example, though I don’t really think of it as “derogatory.” Finesse has its weaknesses the same way sole power does. Maybe only in regards to their offense though…
Is there even a way to play finesse defense?
Deion Sanders would argue yes
It’s true to a degree, but a lesser degree than last year. Dolphins are currently the #2 rushing offense in the NFL behind the Ravens. Lead the league in YPC at 5.5 / carry. (Ravens #2 at 4.9 / carry)
Last year the Dolphins were 26th in rushing, 22 in YPC.
It’s tough to shake a “finesse” label once you have it but the Dolphins are much less of a finesse team than last year.
you can argue though that the way we run the ball is still a “finesse”. we typically dont run between the tackles and gut out yards. we use a heavy compliment of sweeps and reverses to try and hit the home run.
I dont really see it as being a bad thing though. we are playing to our strengths, which is speed. If you know your better then anyone else at a certain skill, you take advantage. And its not like there isnt hard work on blocking outside runs too.
2013 Broncos
My take: Colts dominant regular seasons during the Peyton era. '05-'09