I am currently undergoing my formal education as a teacher of English and German as a second language, but I’ve been a full-time private tutor for 5 years. I’m not supposed to teach in a school yet, but due to the state of the education system in my country, there was a lack of teachers and I got invited to teach in my former high school. I teach a group of 11 thirteen-year-olds 6x45 minutes on Mondays and Tuesdays.
I felt like I was doing quite well, but today devastated me. We had our second lesson in the canteen (due to lack of available classrooms) and it was a disaster. I try my best to plan engaging, exciting lessons, so after a short vocabulary test they were due to write, I asked them to go around the classroom and ask each other some questions related to our new unit, I even made and printed them a spreadhseet with their names that they could fill out. They started asking each other for the information in our native language, no matter how many times I asked them to speak in English, and after the time was up, I could not, for the life of me, get them to settle. Half of them were shouting and chatting, the other half were eyeing me, waiting for my response. They are generally quite lively, but today was the first time I could not get them to settle.
Now, I never yell. I do my absolute best to respect everyone, just like I promised them the first time we met. However, I asked for their respect and cooperation in return and I can see that faltering. They got used to me, got bored with me, I don’t know.
Initially I thought I would have more problems with the boys, but they are okay. It’s the girls, they mature faster so they are already these moody teenagers. I can’t get them all to do their homework, even by giving them bad grades for it, can’t get them to engage, put away their phones, nothing. I tried interesting debates, topics, but it doesn’t work for more than 5 minutes. Nothing I’ve seen in movies, experienced as a student myself works anymore. They don’t have the attention span. They are under- and overstimulated at the same time and cannot sit still, but cannot do a stand-up activity in an organised manner, it turns into chaos.
Academically, they are bright and have a very good level of English thanks to video games and movies. They do fairly well in tests, but they won’t improve unless I manage to get through to them. I have some rules in place and I stick to them, so I have given them a few bad grades, etc. but I don’t feel like it’s enough.
For information, I’m barely taller than them and I’m a 25-year-old, younger looking girl so I’m not very intimidating. I’m also not mean-spirited and never talk down to any of my students, but I realised I need a modified approach to teaching in a group compared to teaching privately.
I would appreciate any insight or tips on how to achieve a calm and disciplined environment in which I can actually use the fun stuff I work hard to prepare.
One tip I would give (as a kids sports coach): Instead of starting with every student doing a stand up activity simultaneously, start with nominating one student to do a part of the activity in front of everyone as a demonstration for the others to observe. Once they complete the task, you can give feedback to them or quiz the other students asking what feedback would appropriate.
Then you repeat with another few students until everyone understands what is expected. Once they understand, you set them off to try on their own and place a short time limit on it initially. Five minutes is fine because they need more guidance. Break the task up. Once they are familiar with the exercise structure, you can go longer time and more complex.
Don’t expect them to succeed. The point of exercises is to build up slowly from low ability. Give praise for what they got right and make a note of where they can improve.
At 13yo, kids are still learning how to study or apply their knowledge.
Thanks, this was very useful. I now see that I cannot properly guide them through a difficult task if I have them go at it at the same time, so I’ve been trying to follow your advice today. Also, I really like the part “don’t expect them to succeed”, we played a game at the end of today’s lessons and they did SO terrible but they seemed to be enjoying themselves, which was ultimately the goal. :)
Yeah I agree. Games are just to de-stress their brains, especially at the end. As long as they are implementing the rules and spirit of the game, you’ve achieved your goal.
please format your text with line breaks for readability, as it’s difficult to understand your situation when it’s written in one giant block of text.
Done! I didn’t add enough spacing between the paragraphs, sorry.
you’re good
Can’t help with all the other stuff because teenagers are complex. But on the specific point of using the native language, from my experience this could be a sign that they’re not confident enough in their English.
Unlike one on one tutoring, students can get very self-conscious about mistakes or “having accents” with other students, specially when they’re so young. Instead of insisting they speak in English at all times, try to be lenient when they chat among themselves, but ask them to try and repeat their native language questions in English specifically when addressing you.
And when doing group exercises, what worked in the past was letting them sort it out privately in whichever language, but then having them taking turns at a “for real” part of the exercise to the whole class. Your mileage may vary.
I don’t think bad grades as punishment work, specially for homework, but I have no experience in grading. And don’t feel bad for not being “intimidating” or commanding discipline, teenagers in groups are basically immune to that (unless there’s some form of severe punishment which you obviously shouldn’t do) and kids nowadays are even harder to control.
Thanks for the advice!
I have considered that they might be self-conscious, but they are otherwise very outspoken and confident, so I honestly don’t think this is the issue, maybe with some of them. But I was more lenient when it came to group work today and it went much smoother, they eventually spoke more English, so I consider it a success.
As for bad grades as punishment, I don’t really have much else. Luckily, they are motivated enough to want a good grade, and I tell them time and again that I don’t want to give anyone an F for homework, or anything for that matter. However, it is a part of their class to complete the exercises I assign as homework so it would be unfair towards the others to just let it slide.
On the second point it does make sense. I just don’t think it can work as the sole encouragement, happy incentives are kind of a must too. Those are harder to find and depend on their interests, but movies and stuff like that can work.
But I have very little experience with actually running the classes rather than just assisting, so take that bit with a pinch of salt.
Definitely, negative motivation as I call it, is never enough on its own. I have lots of positive encouragement such as a system of “plus”-es that they get for participating and doing well during classes, 5 of these gains them an A, I also regularly hand out these fun coupons for those who get 100% on a task or win a game. They really like those!
I’m sorry. It can be really tough and stressful planning the next class after a situation like that. I’ve been there.
One thing I think you’ve probably learned the hard way is that the rapport you can build with students in private tuition just doesn’t work in larger classrooms.
You say you’re undergoing formal education as a school teacher - is there a professor on your course that you could consult?
Classroom management techniques will vary vastly between our cultures. The teacher-student-parent dynamic is so different in different countries.
What are kids like at that age in your culture? Do they get self-conscious about how they look to their peers when they engage with teachers or anything like that?
With students in my culture, if I’d just gone through a class like the one you described, my next lesson plan would be very dry. Limited engagement, brief explanation of concepts and straight to textbook exercises and dictation. Trust was given last lesson and it was abused, so now trust is withheld. But that’s with my culture. It might land very, very different with your studets.
That’s why I think consulting one of the professors where you’re studying would be the best course of action. The best advice will clme from there, or from your senior colleagues at the school (the ones who know you were hired ‘early’ in your training).
Thanks for your answer, it was really thought-provoking for me.
I knew going into this that what has worked in my private lessons probably won’t work in a classroom setting, but I was still surprised.
I might ask one of my professors for advice, but I won’t be at the university until the end of the month, but it is a really good idea.
Yesterday, I reflected on your thoughts on classroom management in my country and also in the specific area where I live, which is the poorest part of the country with lots of underfunded schools. I even spoke to their formteacher and she said many of them come from small villages without any proper teachers and have a hard time adjusting, and she told me to be strict but kind. I did put together a dry-ish lesson plan for today but agreed with them that if they cooperate, I’d bring along a game for the last lesson of the day, and it was fine. We had a good discussion and they managed to work in silence as well.
I don’t have much to add but being respected (and getting your class to do the assignments) is a matter of confidence 😁
Confidence does not mean being harsh or a hardass. This might be lost on 13yos however so that’s why I said I can’t add much.
But it means that you project an air of being untouchable. I think one way to help achieve this is to have principles that remain coherent. If they know what to expect from you; that they can still ask questions, that they can still rely on you to be a teacher, but that you’re going to hold them to some standard… you will be able to make them see you not as the barely taller, 25yo younger-looking girl you call yourself, but as sort of an untouchable authority figure. Remember that people see you differently to how you see yourself.
I think we’re moving away from the teacher being a final authority whose word is law and being more of a guide or mentor, getting students to do things because it’s in their best interest, not because you said so. And one job the teacher has is to help students realize that what you’re doing is ultimately helping them, even if you can be tough on them sometimes. But you’re the teacher here and I say this now as an adult.
Some of the teachers we laughed and joked around with as a kid were the big bald guys, and some of the teachers we knew to take seriously were the 50yo moms.
Thank you, this is a very important aspect of the issue indeed. I did lay down some basic principles during out first lesson and I hold myself to them. But now I think maybe I was too set on being liked that it’s like I hoped being respected would come along, but it’s the other way around. I need to focus on being respected and being liked will come along.
i have no experience teaching but from my exp being a student, the strict but fun teachers do the best
I had the same experience, that’s what I’d like to be myself.
Idk kids are cheeky bastards. All power to you, teachers deserve all the love in the world.
To me, this sounds like a problem in the relationship with your students. Maybe you can back off a little bit and instead of presenting content from your classes directly, you could spend a class or two forging a better relationship with your students, like asking what they like, what could make the classes interesting, anything that would make them have an active participation in the class. You could research and bring fun activities to do to make their learning more interesting. Try to establish a closer relationship with your students, a personal and affective connection
If you spend a class bringing them suggestions that you can do and they collectively decide what they would do in the next class, I’m almost certain they would be more active then. If not, maybe it’s the location? You mentioned you are giving classes in the canteen, maybe they get distracted easily there, as it’s not a classroom, etc.
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Could you expand a little bit? Why do you think that would be a “death sentence for discipline?” And what “the opposite” would look like?
I think “discipline” itself is a bad way to frame education. I had similar troubles in my classroom when I gave classes to the sixth and seventh grade, and it was quite effective in the sense that I didn’t have further trouble with noise or side discussions. I took a whole class to ask them what did they expect of classes, why some wouldn’t collaborate, etc. In the end, there was one or two who wasn’t really interested in the classes but needed to stay there to earn government assistance for their families. We agreed that those who didn’t wish to participate could do so in silence to respect the others, and that was it, never had any trouble with those classes again
This is really interesting and not something I would have otherwise considered. I like the idea, but I do have some concerns that I would appreciate your thoughts on.
- Some of them are alreaddy quite demanding - can we watch a video? can we play kahoot? can we go outside? I’m afraid they would take afvantage of this and suggest only fun activities that do not really move us along.
- Do they really know what works for them? Or would they opt for easy to complete exercises on purpose? Are they mature enough to reflect on methodology?
- Do you have advice on how to approach this, how to introduce this class? I was thinking we could do this next week as it will have been one month of us working together.
Some of them are alreaddy quite demanding - can we watch a video? can we play kahoot? can we go outside? I’m afraid they would take afvantage of this and suggest only fun activities that do not really move us along.
This in fact happened with my students at the time as well. It’s just noise lol, I acknowledged their suggestion, though I said it was outside the purpose of the class, but I would “consider their suggestion.” Obviously it didn’t make sense to put the students to listen to a Fortnite rap song on YouTube
Do they really know what works for them? Or would they opt for easy to complete exercises on purpose? Are they mature enough to reflect on methodology?
No they are not, but the purpose is to connect with your students and understand their interests, not to follow their suggestions. The idea is to gather a bit of their interests so that you’ll have things to work with that will be close to them. For instance, consider a large part of students like a particular cartoon or something. You could then describe some stuff about the cartoon in English, like the characters, their relationships, etc. When they are interested in the subject, they are much more likely to pay attention and learn.
Do you have advice on how to approach this, how to introduce this class? I was thinking we could do this next week as it will have been one month of us working together
Not sure what you mean, like how would you present to them? “Hello, everyone, today we will do things differently. We’ll have a talk about our classes,” or something.
Honestly, comrade, don’t expect this to solve your problems. In my brief experience giving classes, it worked, but it was a tactic that worked after battling for months with those students. Since you’ve been giving classes to a group of students only recently, you will have a few troubles in the beginning while you adapt and find creative ways to overcome those problems… There are a few case of students who are very tough to work with, so don’t beat yourself up if you can’t get everyone’s attention. Hey, we’ve all been students, we all have classes we aren’t interested in, but we have to be there.
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- Explain your behavioural standards
- Explain the consequences of not meeting them
- Enforce appropriately
If you didn’t do this in your very first class, you are playing catch up which is hard.
They are children and it’s no more complicated than carrot and stick, but you have to use them.
Luckily I’ve mostly managed to hold myself to the rules I had outlined in our first class, so it’s not playing catch up, but more like a situation I didn’t prepare for. :) Thanks for the insight!
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Disclaimer, in case you’re not in on the joke of Ask Lemmygrad; If you want a serious answer, you should probably pose this question in a more serious Ask Lemmy.
I like how you realised your answer was useless to a serious thread, but still went ahead with it. You might want to consider for a second why people would be less willing to post questions such as these in “ask dotworld” if that’s the general attitude there.
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