Food or fighting it’s all pleasure

That is your opinion and I disagree. I don’t think this country (or most of them) have enough arable land for everyone to convert entirely to meat free from my understanding. Also, it’s worth pointing that it’s not a simple morality issue either as it would require radically changing the world economy and food distribution. Especially in impoverished nations.

Always with the dog examples huh. I don’t eat them because in the west we view them as social/companion animals. I’m sure if I came from a culture that was different, endured hardships(like starving to death) or even just viewed them differently, maybe I would too.

That obviously can’t be what you mean, as it is not compassionate, kind, or merciful to kill someone when they don’t need to die. What do you mean by it?

You know what I mean, without undue suffering or cruelty. You would consider it humane if we killed them at the end of their natural lifespan by that logic.

Unless you have some way to rapidly switch billions of dollar of farming industry to purely plant based industries? Not to mention replacing the jobs/livelihoods of the entire farming sector. I think society is slowly drifting toward eating less meat naturally (although quicker would be better environmentally). I suspect however the a small token market for it will always exist and the less there is, there more likely that it can be done in a humane manner.

Anyway this will be it for me, frankly the continual moving on from the points I address to ask questions feels pretty sealion-y. Add that to the fact that when I also addressed your examples in relation to feedlotting you say I’m “all over the place”. You also seem to not genuinely want to understand why people eat meat (which should be obvious when you gave your absolutist stance in the op). Then also continually trying to return to dogs for some reason makes it pretty convincing that you aren’t here for the reasons stated in the OP and instead are here to attempt change people opinions in a disingenuous, guilt tripping manner. Anyway all the best. I would put it to you that if you don’t want omnis in the vegan comm posing their opinions as questions, interrogating and passively accusing members of that community; you should probably refrain from the same behaviour.

Yes they do, I don’t think I implied otherwise, my point was the way they live and are killed is different. The reason for doing so is a factor too. E.g. dogs that are killed in illegal dog fighting aren’t eaten after(not it would make it ok if they were), whales, etc. Cattle in feedlots can be reasonably expected to live humane lives and killed in a humane manner. The same cannot be said for any of the cases that you mentioned. Hence my elaborating on them for the sake of comparison.

I’d be aghast if you were doing so recreationally. If we lived in a culture that ate dogs, probably not, depending on the manner in which they’re raised and killed. This sort of stuff is what I’m referring to feeling like “guilting” as it’s probably not super common for people who eat meat to be fond of boltgunning puppies.

I mean I’m happy to discuss whatever you like; but my participation here is to answer the original question and provide insight as why I eat meat and address common point vegans discuss I.e. the condemning factory farming remark.

I can see that, more to point out current social norms or “tradition” as you put it. If the majority of people are currently omni and they have no external reason to change; they won’t. Psychosocial factors/status quo might be what I’m appealing to?

Well I’d assert that those cases are not all equal. Cattle in feedlots probably don’t live the same lives as dogs that fight each other; often to the death. Whales are important to their ecosystem (and we could fish them into extinction). It’s also just super wasteful to kill whales for oil/food when we have other ways of sourcing those materials. Elephants can practically never be sufficiently well kept by a circus (except a wealthy company maybe) and are incredibly social animals so there’s no way in my mind to keep them in a circus in a humane way.

I think the main problem veganism/vegos face is PR/marketing. For example, I feel like far more people would become meatless for environmental reason rather than comparing “modern” farming to dog fighting. Which feels more like guilting than anything and puts the receiver immediately on the defensive. Factory farming and abusive farming practices in general can get fucked though.

I’ve seen sites similar (except specifically for abuse cases) and read “eating animals”. Found the feedlot I worked at on the site you linked and they have no record (fortunately). No one really “needs” anything apart from that required for survival. However, the majority of humans are omni so making product that appeal to them will result in more of us considering moving beyond meat.

I’ve got no problem with vegans or people being meat free, I respect it. That said, the majority of humans are and have been omni since recorded history so it’s not as simple as “just” not eating meat. The gut biome transition alone is enough to put off a lot of people, even if it passes somewhat quickly.

Grew up with (and later worked on) a family operated feedlot. From being inducted/fed in the feedlot to the process of being sent to the abattoir. Occasionally, we’d have butchers out to the feedlot for when the owners had their own beast killed for food.

So I’d say a bit of desensitisation but also they don’t have too bad a life in the feedlot (imo obviously) and when they’re killed, at least on site, it’s over before they know what’s happened. Feedlot has cameras around the stock camp and feedlot in general. For security but also, mishandling cattle will get you sacked. Electric prods are no longer allowed except for particular unruly cattle. Mishandled cattle are stressed cattle, and stressed cattle are more likely to get injured (or even hurt themselves). If these cattle die or have to be euthanised it’s a loss; so it’s a business decision more than moral one. Edit: I also recall some form of accountability where their footage could be randomly inspected; resulting in fines if mistreatment is seen (I could be wrong but I think that’s right).

Can’t speak to other feedlots or types of farming (excluding planting). Dated vegans before; enjoy meat replacements even if I’m still Omni and generally try to reduce my meat consumption for health and environmental reasons.

I bloody knew it, this was always attention seeking/trolling and the “using old linguistic” stuff was bullshit.

Hell yeah, good luck with the launch!

Damn. Sucks to suck so hard that it cost you a couple hundred grand.

I don’t see how you can honestly believe that when Trump is ducking out of legitimate debates that Harris has challenged him to.

I think that’s a pretty closed off view of self help. Especially since earlier generations, particularly men, were sold the whole “men don’t cry” and “put up or shut up”. Essentially gaslit entire generations believing that forcing down emotions and emotional introspection out of their lives was the right thing to do. So it filled a market gap. Especially ones written by professionals, specifically in mental health or philosophy.

I’ve also seen (and personally received) testimonials on their effects. Shit people have literally read their way out of a smoking addiction (Alan Carr for my dart munching friends). That’s not to say there isn’t a lot of trash out there cashing in. Just the “everyone knows they don’t work” line irked me into replying.

Thanks for the recommendation. A previous partner of mine had CPTSD and I’ve always wished I understood it more.

I doubt they would go on. Maybe Walz since he would likely flip it if Jogan developed a spine and gave a hard interview. Given Joes lack of questioning any of the more gross people he’s had in the podcast. Likely though I doubt it, probably don’t want to give validity to what is largely a safe space for unfounded nonsense and conservative views.

Man I am fucking psyched. I got shadow warrior redux, Quake II and a whole bunch of Sony classics I missed due to having Xbox. All we need is Urban Assault and NFS 2 SE and I’ll literally become so excited I’ll vibrate out of existence. Is nostalgia induced transcendence really so much to ask?

Considering the mod will ban you for expressing literally the same sentiment as the OP and was posting multiple time daily, I think they are.

We had similar issues here with people attending these event flying a terrorist flag with weapons on them or chanting “death to x”. I walked past one of the Palestine protest by chance two weeks ago, they had similar energy without this shit. Police didn’t stop them and reported it as peaceful. It ain’t hard. Was good to see so many young people at the protest too.

Unless the oven auto starts on close I don’t see how this could have happened with the victim alone. I think ours would idle when closed but they would be already on (warm enough to alert/stop someone walking inside). Like it’d have to be a shit design if an employee could just close themselves inside one and the oven starts some sort of program or turns on due to a schedule. Very interested to hear what the investigation turns up. Feels very much like someone might be up for manslaughter/ neg homicide.

Ex: She was inside cleaning and an employee wearing ANC headphones closed it and hit it the on. Or someone closing her in there as a “prank” not realising the danger.

I did a brief stint working in a bakery. If it’s anything like those oven there’s only a small glass window to see inside. Though I don’t recall them locking, I imagine they would otherwise employees would get blasted with hundred degree heat. They also seem like prying them open would be incredibly difficult. I don’t know how they aren’t like walk ins with an emergency release. I agree still something doesn’t add up.

Agreed, even worse is algorithms continual boosting of “ragebait” or emotion centred content. Why read/watch an article that will “just” be informative when you can watch something claiming how any step forward means you’ll lose something.

I’m providing some of the reasons I’ve read or heard from the campaign. Not that I support them or their validity. Regardless of whether people “could” have sought it out if labour wanting to put forward these changes the onus is on them address all the “concerns” either directly or by be being more informative in their campaign.

Which is all an aside, my point remains there were other reasons people didn’t vote yes contrary to what the writer of the article asserted.

The reasons I saw from the no campaign were 1. Unclear wording in the constitution 2. Bringing race into the constitution (either for all or none) 3. Lack of explanation as to how the changes, again to our constitution, would tangibly “close the gap”. I largely blame labour for it failing. Plenty of nos could have been yes if the campaign was more clear and informative imo but I don’t doubt racism played its part. Blaming it exclusively on racism and political apathy is disingenuous and certainly won’t inform people nor change their minds.