Well there you go, you’ve just defined sin(lessness)
Not everyone has the same definition though - but if you’re coming from a Christian-influenced culture, that’s not far off the core meaning of sin in Christianity, just with an added “easier said than done”
Sin - a deed that sky fairy says is bad and you must jump through this sky fairy’s follwers’ hoops to divest yourself of it to remain in their and sky fairy’s favor. If you don’t, you don’t get to go to sky fairy’s happy place when you die.
Being a dick - no sky fairy involved. You’re just being a dick and need to make amends if you don’t want to be perceived as a dick, or just carry on being one. No divine retribution, no hoops to jump through for Elysium.
So, it’s like if you smoke cigarettes next to a pregnant lady, and the sign on the wall says no smoking. If someone asks you to stop, are they currying favour with the wall-fairy? Or are you being a dick by passing smoke to the lady (even if you don’t realise it’s damaging her health).
Besides, if we’re talking Christian belief, said sky fairy is the same who made you and the world you live in, not too mention a bunch of other credentials, so he has a bit more clout than your average pigeon.
And as to the followers’ hoops: “the views expressed herein do not always represent the views of the management” (although they ought to, if followers are following well!)
In some Christianity. Many define it in terms of disobeying God, which can conflict pretty badly with the not-being-a-dick thing depending on interpretation
In correct Christianity. (Yes, I am bigoted about what sort of Christianity is correct.)
Obeying God is, a) not being a dick to God, and b) not being a dick is easier said than done and God understands this better than we do.
Agreed the interpretation can turn this to either seem bad or genuinely be bad; and there are other also-valid ways to oversimplify it. But I still contend that in genuine Christianity not-sin is at least essentially close to not-being-a dick as long as you can think ahead to later consequences of your actions and not be a dick with the consequences either.
I’m not Christian, so I don’t have a view on what interpretations are “correct.” But if I might ask, how did you come to the conclusion that your interpretation is the right one?
Ooh, this one I want to give much more time to answering then I have…
Many different aspects, some weaker, some stronger, that come together enough that I feel very confident in my confidence.
And not every belief within Christianity is something I’d say I’m sure I’m right, or it’s vital for every Christian to believe/agree.
But my main logical foundation would be something like this:
‘God’, who created existing physical reality, exists.
the Bible, being a special testimony and writings of people’s interaction with God, is trustworthy
Jesus is God come into the world as a human, and he died, and came alive again
a Christian is someone who follows Jesus and accepts forgiveness through Jesus and knows and worships God through Jesus.
Those are pretty much axioms/dogma, and it would certainly take more time than I have now to describe why and how I think they are true. But I feel confident to say anybody who rejects those has no business calling their beliefs ‘Christian’.
(Essentially. …there are a handful of subtleties depending on how you interpret what I’ve written.)
From those axioms there are a bunch of things that I think are essential for healthy Christian thinking & living, and a bunch more that I value highly, and/or think correct, but I’ll still respect you as a Christian if you disagree.
And for the most part, this core foundation (including many of the corollaries) is shared by pretty much every Christian group that considers Jesus their lord rather than some other person or ‘humanity’ or ‘human logic’. Although the different groups will often discuss and express it in very different terms and perspectives.
For the question above of what is ‘sin’, Christians will talk of obedience, broken relationship with God, rebellion, evil spiritual influence, corruption, decay, human nature, foolishness… all things that have connection, and some become just different starting points to talk about the same thing.
Part of the problem is whether you start with a concept and choose a word (e.g. sin) for it; or start with a word and ask what other people (e.g. the Bible authors, Christian history etc) have meant by it.
And of course on the way people will twist and abuse it all sorts for their own ends, which is a major reason we always go back to the Bible for authority.
All that said - I think there is a strong argument from the Bible, backed up (for myself) by my experience of my relationship with God and (for others) by common church teaching, that the core meaning of sin is being not-loving, not-kind, selfish, hateful, evil, towards people and towards God. I.e., being a dick. That judgement is recognising publicly between wrong (being a dick) and right (not being a dick) and rewarding/punishing appropriately. And that most of how sin and righteousness is discussed and characterised beyond that, is framework around that, taking into account long term effects, the reality of God, and so on.
I don’t expect every Christian to agree that my way there of analysing it is the best, or even helpful, but I would expect most if not all - if they fit my axioms of Christianity above - if they really study and consider their beliefs and the Bible, to come to a similar conclusion as part of their understanding.
Phew! I wonder if I made any terrible mistakes as I wrote. (And on my phone, at that!) Eh, it’s the internet, you can get what you want from it and assume I’m a dick for the rest ;-p. And I’ll try and answer any more questions if you like.
Oh, a final note. My description of ‘judgement’ seems to miss out the central thing of Christianity, that is we are saved (from our sin, and from judgement regarding it) by trusting in Jesus. That is central, (and maybe I’ve not written it well), but it’s of key importance that that - that salvation through Jesus - is built on top of that plain meaning of right/wrong and judgement.
I’m not from a religious background but I always thought sex before marriage is a sin, no? I’m not sure how in modern times sex before marriage between two consenting adults is being a dick.
And on top of that, the child then might have only one parent to look after them, putting them in a harder upbringing.
Besides which, I’m given to understand there’s more to healthy relationships than sex today, bugger off tomorrow - which is a common enough plan from some.
Sin isn’t real. Live your life however you want without being a dick to others
Well there you go, you’ve just defined sin(lessness)
Not everyone has the same definition though - but if you’re coming from a Christian-influenced culture, that’s not far off the core meaning of sin in Christianity, just with an added “easier said than done”
Sin - a deed that sky fairy says is bad and you must jump through this sky fairy’s follwers’ hoops to divest yourself of it to remain in their and sky fairy’s favor. If you don’t, you don’t get to go to sky fairy’s happy place when you die.
Being a dick - no sky fairy involved. You’re just being a dick and need to make amends if you don’t want to be perceived as a dick, or just carry on being one. No divine retribution, no hoops to jump through for Elysium.
So, it’s like if you smoke cigarettes next to a pregnant lady, and the sign on the wall says no smoking. If someone asks you to stop, are they currying favour with the wall-fairy? Or are you being a dick by passing smoke to the lady (even if you don’t realise it’s damaging her health).
Besides, if we’re talking Christian belief, said sky fairy is the same who made you and the world you live in, not too mention a bunch of other credentials, so he has a bit more clout than your average pigeon.
And as to the followers’ hoops: “the views expressed herein do not always represent the views of the management” (although they ought to, if followers are following well!)
In some Christianity. Many define it in terms of disobeying God, which can conflict pretty badly with the not-being-a-dick thing depending on interpretation
In correct Christianity. (Yes, I am bigoted about what sort of Christianity is correct.)
Obeying God is, a) not being a dick to God, and b) not being a dick is easier said than done and God understands this better than we do.
Agreed the interpretation can turn this to either seem bad or genuinely be bad; and there are other also-valid ways to oversimplify it. But I still contend that in genuine Christianity not-sin is at least essentially close to not-being-a dick as long as you can think ahead to later consequences of your actions and not be a dick with the consequences either.
I’m not Christian, so I don’t have a view on what interpretations are “correct.” But if I might ask, how did you come to the conclusion that your interpretation is the right one?
Ooh, this one I want to give much more time to answering then I have…
Many different aspects, some weaker, some stronger, that come together enough that I feel very confident in my confidence.
And not every belief within Christianity is something I’d say I’m sure I’m right, or it’s vital for every Christian to believe/agree.
But my main logical foundation would be something like this:
Those are pretty much axioms/dogma, and it would certainly take more time than I have now to describe why and how I think they are true. But I feel confident to say anybody who rejects those has no business calling their beliefs ‘Christian’.
(Essentially. …there are a handful of subtleties depending on how you interpret what I’ve written.)
From those axioms there are a bunch of things that I think are essential for healthy Christian thinking & living, and a bunch more that I value highly, and/or think correct, but I’ll still respect you as a Christian if you disagree.
And for the most part, this core foundation (including many of the corollaries) is shared by pretty much every Christian group that considers Jesus their lord rather than some other person or ‘humanity’ or ‘human logic’. Although the different groups will often discuss and express it in very different terms and perspectives.
For the question above of what is ‘sin’, Christians will talk of obedience, broken relationship with God, rebellion, evil spiritual influence, corruption, decay, human nature, foolishness… all things that have connection, and some become just different starting points to talk about the same thing.
Part of the problem is whether you start with a concept and choose a word (e.g. sin) for it; or start with a word and ask what other people (e.g. the Bible authors, Christian history etc) have meant by it.
And of course on the way people will twist and abuse it all sorts for their own ends, which is a major reason we always go back to the Bible for authority.
All that said - I think there is a strong argument from the Bible, backed up (for myself) by my experience of my relationship with God and (for others) by common church teaching, that the core meaning of sin is being not-loving, not-kind, selfish, hateful, evil, towards people and towards God. I.e., being a dick. That judgement is recognising publicly between wrong (being a dick) and right (not being a dick) and rewarding/punishing appropriately. And that most of how sin and righteousness is discussed and characterised beyond that, is framework around that, taking into account long term effects, the reality of God, and so on.
I don’t expect every Christian to agree that my way there of analysing it is the best, or even helpful, but I would expect most if not all - if they fit my axioms of Christianity above - if they really study and consider their beliefs and the Bible, to come to a similar conclusion as part of their understanding.
Phew! I wonder if I made any terrible mistakes as I wrote. (And on my phone, at that!) Eh, it’s the internet, you can get what you want from it and assume I’m a dick for the rest ;-p. And I’ll try and answer any more questions if you like.
Oh, a final note. My description of ‘judgement’ seems to miss out the central thing of Christianity, that is we are saved (from our sin, and from judgement regarding it) by trusting in Jesus. That is central, (and maybe I’ve not written it well), but it’s of key importance that that - that salvation through Jesus - is built on top of that plain meaning of right/wrong and judgement.
I’m not from a religious background but I always thought sex before marriage is a sin, no? I’m not sure how in modern times sex before marriage between two consenting adults is being a dick.
It is, mainly because in ye olden times, birth control didn’t really exist and if an unmarried woman got pregnant, she would be ostracized or worse.
And on top of that, the child then might have only one parent to look after them, putting them in a harder upbringing.
Besides which, I’m given to understand there’s more to healthy relationships than sex today, bugger off tomorrow - which is a common enough plan from some.