Next year will mark my 16th year voting for democrats, all they do is kick the can and move the line. While I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying don’t vote conservative, I do think it’s a bit like saying “CLOSE YOUR WINDOWS” when a tornado is coming. We’re screwed regardless of who we vote for, the only thing that changes is the rate at which we’re screwed; that is why Anon is sick of life.
Democrats are also conservatives.
If you allow the oligarchs and aristocrats to choose who represents you then they will always choose candidates who rule in their interest.
You can’t change this system by playing within the ruleset you’re given.
Democratic power can only ever be wielded by unions of workers and communes of citizens. Those organizations combine and concentrate the power of regular people and can effectively wield this against the ruling class.
It’s not even a matter of “Democrat vs Republican” - do you know what they all have in common? They’re all part of the same ruling class you mentioned, and they’re all also helping the corporate owners of America push their agendas.
Like… it’s pretty damn blatant who the GOP are rooting for when you consider what rich asshats like Elongated Muskrat want, and then look at some of the policies they passed and go “oh shit.”
The FPTP voting system means everyone is held hostage voting for the party they hate the least. If you vote for a third party you just make it more likely the party you hate most will win because the vote is split.
Obviously things still wouldn’t be perfect with a proportional voting system but I think it would take some power away from capitalist oligarchs because we will be able to vote for a party we like without just making the fascists more likely to win. The issue is the only two parties you can realistically vote for are highly incentivised to not change the voting system because they will lose a lot of the power they have.
Or how about everyone who wants to vote 3rd party, votes 3rd party?
I know it’s a little different because my country has proportional voting system, but the first two elections the party I vote for was below the limit to be in a parliament. I still voted for them as did others and now it’s one of the stronger parties.
If everyone who doesn’t like both the parties starts voting 3rd party, you have a chance.
Think about it on the constituency level, say you have a constituency with 100,000 people. One year, 60k people vote for party A and 40k for party B so party A wins. But during during the years before the next election people become disenfranchised with party A so they start voting for party C who they like more. In the following election, party A gets 30k votes, party B gets 40k votes again and party C gets 30k votes. Because FPTP is a “winner takes all” system, party B is now takes that constituency which is the the party A and C voters dislike most, even though party B got less votes than those other two. This is called the spoiler effect. When this is happening all over a country, sure maybe some constituencies will flip but for each that does like 30 will have the vote split leading to a probable landslide victory for party B.
Sure in your country, your vote was also “wasted” if your party of choice never entered parliament I suppose (although if you get to choose multiple parties in order of preference where it defaults to your second if the first doesn’t get enough votes then it isn’t wasted) but the ecosystem will be much more favourable to new parties growing because the way the voting system works makes it actually possible for them to do so. So the vote isn’t wasted like it is in FPTP.
CGP Grey has some great videos about FPTP on his channel if you’re interested in a better explanation that I can provide.
wrong. fivethirtyeight found that perot cost clinton a wider margin of victory.
A 1999 study in the American Journal of Political Science estimated that Perot’s candidacy hurt the Clinton campaign, reducing “Clinton’s margin of victory over Bush by seven percentage point.”[47] In 2016, FiveThirtyEight noted that it was “unlikely” that Perot was a spoiler.[48]
Give the Democrats a 4 person majority then 5 conservative Democrats will Hum and Haw about fiscal responsibility to their voters.
It is really up to hard progressives to get in and vote as a block to keep the Dems from passing watered down policy by forcing them to earn the blocks vote with real policies the public already want.
Medicare for all, free college, 20 dollar minimum wage and more all all supported by way more than 50 percent of the country.
The Dems want to lose these fights for their donors they need to be forced to do their job against their donors wishes.
Next year will mark my 16th year voting for democrats, all they do is kick the can and move the line. While I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying don’t vote conservative, I do think it’s a bit like saying “CLOSE YOUR WINDOWS” when a tornado is coming. We’re screwed regardless of who we vote for, the only thing that changes is the rate at which we’re screwed; that is why Anon is sick of life.
Democrats are also conservatives. If you allow the oligarchs and aristocrats to choose who represents you then they will always choose candidates who rule in their interest. You can’t change this system by playing within the ruleset you’re given. Democratic power can only ever be wielded by unions of workers and communes of citizens. Those organizations combine and concentrate the power of regular people and can effectively wield this against the ruling class.
It’s not even a matter of “Democrat vs Republican” - do you know what they all have in common? They’re all part of the same ruling class you mentioned, and they’re all also helping the corporate owners of America push their agendas.
Like… it’s pretty damn blatant who the GOP are rooting for when you consider what rich asshats like Elongated Muskrat want, and then look at some of the policies they passed and go “oh shit.”
The FPTP voting system means everyone is held hostage voting for the party they hate the least. If you vote for a third party you just make it more likely the party you hate most will win because the vote is split.
Obviously things still wouldn’t be perfect with a proportional voting system but I think it would take some power away from capitalist oligarchs because we will be able to vote for a party we like without just making the fascists more likely to win. The issue is the only two parties you can realistically vote for are highly incentivised to not change the voting system because they will lose a lot of the power they have.
Or how about everyone who wants to vote 3rd party, votes 3rd party?
I know it’s a little different because my country has proportional voting system, but the first two elections the party I vote for was below the limit to be in a parliament. I still voted for them as did others and now it’s one of the stronger parties.
If everyone who doesn’t like both the parties starts voting 3rd party, you have a chance.
I made the mistake of voting 3rd party in 2016. Massive fucking mistake.
That’s the good 'ol spoiler effect in action lol
Think about it on the constituency level, say you have a constituency with 100,000 people. One year, 60k people vote for party A and 40k for party B so party A wins. But during during the years before the next election people become disenfranchised with party A so they start voting for party C who they like more. In the following election, party A gets 30k votes, party B gets 40k votes again and party C gets 30k votes. Because FPTP is a “winner takes all” system, party B is now takes that constituency which is the the party A and C voters dislike most, even though party B got less votes than those other two. This is called the spoiler effect. When this is happening all over a country, sure maybe some constituencies will flip but for each that does like 30 will have the vote split leading to a probable landslide victory for party B.
Sure in your country, your vote was also “wasted” if your party of choice never entered parliament I suppose (although if you get to choose multiple parties in order of preference where it defaults to your second if the first doesn’t get enough votes then it isn’t wasted) but the ecosystem will be much more favourable to new parties growing because the way the voting system works makes it actually possible for them to do so. So the vote isn’t wasted like it is in FPTP.
CGP Grey has some great videos about FPTP on his channel if you’re interested in a better explanation that I can provide.
The spoiler effect was very evident when Ross Perot ran during the 1992 presidential election which put Clinton in office.
Well yes, that and the epic sax skills effect haha.
wrong. fivethirtyeight found that perot cost clinton a wider margin of victory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_presidential_election#Analysis
if democrats are worried about splitting the vote, they should vote green.
Well, at least you’ve got a heads-up and some choice on how fast you get screwed.
We just got a guy we didnt choose who just suddenly and royally f🇷🇺ks everyone over every few years or so
The Dems can’t do anything without a majority. Give them a true majority where Sinema and Man Chin can’t hold things up. Then stand the fuck back.
Give the Democrats a 4 person majority then 5 conservative Democrats will Hum and Haw about fiscal responsibility to their voters.
It is really up to hard progressives to get in and vote as a block to keep the Dems from passing watered down policy by forcing them to earn the blocks vote with real policies the public already want.
Medicare for all, free college, 20 dollar minimum wage and more all all supported by way more than 50 percent of the country.
The Dems want to lose these fights for their donors they need to be forced to do their job against their donors wishes.