• sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    The collective west does have a Nazi problem, it’s acute in Ukraine.

    Ukraine has been getting shelled for over 8 years now, it’s been the Ukrainian government doing it, and that specifically has been what provoked the invasion.

    It’s just observable reality, idk what’s so hard about remembering events from a few years ago for liberals

    • barsoap
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      1 year ago

      Svoboda having one seat in the Rada kind of acute?

      As far as general patriotism is concerned sure that’s on an all-time high in Ukraine but guess what, that kind of stuff happens if you get invaded. Which started in 2014, don’t forget that, and Ukraine has been under hybrid attack from Russia since at least 2000, the 90s being only a brief respite from centuries of colonialism and that only because Russia didn’t know WTF it was doing.

      The important part is the type of nationalism you see. And that’s much closer to the likes of the SNP than to Nazis.

      • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        “general patriotism” I see swastikas, things that sub in for swastikas, iron crosses, and totenkopfs.

        You can fuck right off with the “centuries of colonialism” that’s literlly the west repackaging its own history to accuse others of.

        I thought you guys were the ones who said that portions of a country can unilaterally vote to leave and its okay. That was what you lot pulled with Serbia, why does it suddenly no longer apply here?

        • barsoap
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          1 year ago

          So the Bundeswehr is a Nazi org because it’s using the iron cross as emblem?

          You can fuck right off with the “centuries of colonialism” that’s literlly the west repackaging its own history to accuse others of.

          So Russia suddenly isn’t European? That would come as news to Europe.

          That was what you lot pulled with Serbia, why does it suddenly no longer apply here?

          I was a bit too young to have much of an opinion or impact there. In any case very much unlike Ukraine, Serbia actually was genociding people. “Get genocided by your central state, get independence” is more than fair if you ask me.

          • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            I was a bit too young to have much of an opinion or impact there. In any case very much unlike Ukraine, Serbia actually was genociding people. “Get genocided by your central state, get independence” is more than fair if you ask me.

            The Ukrainian state has been killing civilians indiscriminately in its two breakaway regions, they were just doing it for much longer than it took for any kind of intervention in Serbia.

            When the west starts to pretend to care about muslims, you know they’re full of shit about any purported genocides. They went from pretending to care about Kosovar Albanians to murdering millions of muslims over the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

            So the Bundeswehr is a Nazi org because it’s using the iron cross as emblem?

            It’s pretty funny having iron crosses constantly showing up on all the UA vehicles- I think we all know what they’re going for, they just left off a few lines.

            So Russia suddenly isn’t European? That would come as news to Europe.

            Russia has not been a part of ‘the west’, certainly not as far as most of the EU is concerned unless you’re trying to be intentionally obtuse

            • barsoap
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              1 year ago

              Russia has not been a part of ‘the west’, certainly not as far as most of the EU is concerned unless you’re trying to be intentionally obtuse

              It has been a colonial empire for quite a while now. Or do you really think this didn’t happen with military force? That it’s just the natural extent of the Russian nation? Or that the Empire didn’t brutally exploit every new territory they conquered? “Colony” doesn’t mean “overseas”.

              Every single larger, or affluent, European country engaged in colonialism.

              It’s pretty funny having iron crosses constantly showing up on all the UA vehicles

              That’s the Cossack cross. The Cossacks got it from the Templars, same root as the Iron Cross.

              The Ukrainian state has been killing civilians indiscriminately in its two breakaway regions

              Отъебись ватник блядь.

              • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                Were the Russians also doing chattel slavery like the west was for literally hundreds of years? Like sure conditions for serfs weren’t great, but the transatlantic slave trade, the mass genocide of the americas, the subjugation of africa, india and china built the wealth of europe. You’re trying to act like these two things are the same and they’re not

                Отъебись ватник блядь.

                lmao

                seriously though:

                The Ukrainian state has been killing civilians indiscriminately in its two breakaway regions

                Where’s the lie? You guys think that’s a good thing. Link to more info

                • barsoap
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                  1 year ago

                  Like sure conditions for serfs weren’t great,

                  They were abhorrent. You’re really playing semantics here, conditions were essentially slave-like just as, say, Cuba under Batista.

                  built the wealth of europe

                  No. Water power did, Europe has an absurd number of suitable streams for grain mills which allowed the creation of extensive trade, merchant, and scholar classes – as they could be fed. Which led to technological superiority which led to the capacity to roll over other nations (and the presumption that it was the right thing to do). Without that pre-existing wealth all that colonising would not have been possible.

                  Where’s the lie? You guys think that’s a good thing.

                  You’re accusing me of condoning or advocating genocide?

                  • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    You’re accusing me of condoning or advocating genocide?

                    You already told me to fuck off for pointing out that parts of Ukraine have been getting shelled by its own government for over 8 years, considering that response, yes that was my conclusion.

                  • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    No. Water power did, Europe has an absurd number of suitable streams for grain mills allowing less the creation of extensive trade, merchant, and scholar classes. Which led to technological superiority which led to the capacity to roll over other nations (and the presumption that it was the right thing to do). Without that pre-existing wealth all that colonising would not have been possible.

                    It was definitely the slavery

                  • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    They were abhorrent. You’re really playing semantics here, conditions were essentially slave-like just as, say, Cuba under Batista.

                    Yes it was bad, still not as bad as chattel slavery, but pretty bad, that’s why it was completely deserved when they had a revolution. Not sure why you keep bringing up the colonization of siberia like it’s relevant to what’s going on now though. Comparing the amount of human life lost in that to the conquest of Americas though is just silly- there’s no comparison and the same American government is still around since then!

    • Project_Straylight@lemmy.villa-straylight.social
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      1 year ago

      You mean they’ve been fighting Russian backed separatists that were trying to join their regions with Russia

      If they want to live under a totalitarian regime they were always free to move to Russia themselves