Roaches can transmit diseases, they’re an actual biohazard. This doesn’t change that they’re living animals, but this does mean killing them when they’re invading a home is legitimate defense. You may shun someone who goes tiger-hunting, but if a tiger comes into town, threateningly approaches people and get shot, you’d think this was necessary, although regrettable. You might want to investigate the cause for the tiger’s unusual town venture, maybe blame deforestation, but the one who ends up shooting is likely not the one to blame. Same for roaches. Yes, they’re animals; and certainly fascinating ones in some regards, but if they start proliferating in our homes, bringing bacteria and molds everywhere… At some point it’s us or them.
I’m personally an amoralist vegan so I can’t really speak to that exactly, but it comes down to practicality and health. Veganism is usually about reducing harm as far as is practical (I.e., without risk to your own health), so most vegans make exceptions for medical needs, etc.
Heh, nice try at having standards but since it is impossible to not harm anything then obviously possibly harming for pleasure is fine. Checkmate loser.
Now I am going to depict you as the crying wojack and me as the handsome wojack.
And we have to respect the peanuts’ right to be everywhere, right?
Peanuts and bees usually don’t invade your home. And if they did, some would argue it’s acceptable to get rid of them. I’m pretty sure you can figure this out.
edit: also, funny how you bring up “invading homes” while agriculture inherently, necessarily is invading the homes of all sorts of animals. i guess “some would argue that’s acceptable” also?
The point of going vegetarian or vegan is to aim at a reduction of animal suffering and environmental footprint. Not to starve by choice. Agriculture is still better than more agriculture needed to consume meat.
What’s the problem exactly?
Although yeast is technically living, it’s more similar to bacteria than animals or other living creatures. It doesn’t feel pain and isn’t a sentient being - there is absolutely no reason not to consume yeast or foods made with yeast.
Insects and other animals were not (and are still not in all cases) always considered sentient or capable of feeling pain. When it comes to other life forms, the fact is we have no idea how they experience the world. They are way too different from us. That doesn’t automatically make them less alive or less valuable.
And now we have evidence to suggest that we were wrong, thus there is a moral imperative to act based off this new information. There is no evidence that bacteria or similar organisms are capable of pain or suffering. If you want to just disregard all science and biology, that’s your prerogative I suppose.
If you don’t have any evidentiary basis for your inclusiveness, then that makes it completely arbitrary. Why not start worrying about potential cruelty to non-living things like air, or rocks as well?
i guess this person refuses to work or patronize a place that uses pest control for cockroaches?
false equivalence
agreed. insects are definitely not animals
TIL lol
i get there’s a difference between exploitation and extermination, i’m just not seeing how one is “immoral” and the other isn’t
Roaches can transmit diseases, they’re an actual biohazard. This doesn’t change that they’re living animals, but this does mean killing them when they’re invading a home is legitimate defense. You may shun someone who goes tiger-hunting, but if a tiger comes into town, threateningly approaches people and get shot, you’d think this was necessary, although regrettable. You might want to investigate the cause for the tiger’s unusual town venture, maybe blame deforestation, but the one who ends up shooting is likely not the one to blame. Same for roaches. Yes, they’re animals; and certainly fascinating ones in some regards, but if they start proliferating in our homes, bringing bacteria and molds everywhere… At some point it’s us or them.
I’m personally an amoralist vegan so I can’t really speak to that exactly, but it comes down to practicality and health. Veganism is usually about reducing harm as far as is practical (I.e., without risk to your own health), so most vegans make exceptions for medical needs, etc.
reduction of harm is really the best point, and i can’t think of an argument against it
Heh, nice try at having standards but since it is impossible to not harm anything then obviously possibly harming for pleasure is fine. Checkmate loser.
Now I am going to depict you as the crying wojack and me as the handsome wojack.
Because cockroaches are considered harmful to humans, some people just can’t leave cockroaches alone and live correctly.
some people can’t be around peanuts. or bees for that matter
And we have to respect the peanuts’ right to be everywhere, right?
Peanuts and bees usually don’t invade your home. And if they did, some would argue it’s acceptable to get rid of them. I’m pretty sure you can figure this out.
some would argue that eating honey is not immoral
edit: also, funny how you bring up “invading homes” while agriculture inherently, necessarily is invading the homes of all sorts of animals. i guess “some would argue that’s acceptable” also?
Sure.
The point of going vegetarian or vegan is to aim at a reduction of animal suffering and environmental footprint. Not to starve by choice. Agriculture is still better than more agriculture needed to consume meat.
What’s the problem exactly?
fair enough.
You avoid an avoidable luxury, yet you do not avoid something unavoidable that’s necessary. Curious.
exploitation is a fact of life. why is it unacceptable to exploit bees for their honey, but it’s fine to kill billions of yeasts to make bread?
Although yeast is technically living, it’s more similar to bacteria than animals or other living creatures. It doesn’t feel pain and isn’t a sentient being - there is absolutely no reason not to consume yeast or foods made with yeast.
Insects and other animals were not (and are still not in all cases) always considered sentient or capable of feeling pain. When it comes to other life forms, the fact is we have no idea how they experience the world. They are way too different from us. That doesn’t automatically make them less alive or less valuable.
And now we have evidence to suggest that we were wrong, thus there is a moral imperative to act based off this new information. There is no evidence that bacteria or similar organisms are capable of pain or suffering. If you want to just disregard all science and biology, that’s your prerogative I suppose.
I don’t want to disregard science. I want to err by being preemptively more inclusive, not more cruel, when I don’t have sufficient information.
If you don’t have any evidentiary basis for your inclusiveness, then that makes it completely arbitrary. Why not start worrying about potential cruelty to non-living things like air, or rocks as well?
Because, as you say, they are non-living. What is and what isn’t life is not arbitrary. It’s a distinction based on science.