It all started with the unofficial godot discord admin dealing with some chuds and people turning their ire towards the Godot Foundation staff instead.
Since Godot has stubbornly remained on the Xitter nazi bar as a valid space for PR and social media interaction and dared to promote the Wokot hashtag and reiterate their progessiveness, the reactionaries infesting that space are now piling on their socials and harassing everyone they can get their eyes on.
Examples
- https://x.com/LifeArtStudios/status/1840230152254509067
- https://x.com/Grummz/status/1840162056928145740
- https://x.com/madewithgodot/status/1841118786964840618
Anyway, solidarity with the targets of harassment. I hope they finally realize that Xitter is a lost cause.
Update: Godot is being review-bombed
Fortunately the reactionary backlash seems to be having the opposite effect
Woke is interestingly becoming a word that can easily trigger and be used to troll conservatives.
My favourite thing is asking them to define woke.
I woke up this morning.
Angry fascist noises
My wife uses the term mostly to complain about the shows on Amazon or Netflix. What she means when she says it is a combination of several things. The more boxes you can check the more ‘woke’ it is.
- Female protagonists regularly defeating much larger males in hand-to-hand combat.
- You can predict early on who is going to be the surprise villain and who will turn out to be the good guy. The villain will be the white male and the good guy will be someone who isn’t a white male.
- The white males are presented as stupid, cowardly, and evil but the women and people of color are noble, smart, and strong.
- In business settings women and people of color are the ones in charge or in power.
She feels these shows are presenting a world view that doesn’t correspond to her observed experience, and a large part of what she means is she likes her white male husband and thinks it’s unrealistic to depict all white men as evil cowardly buffoons. I find her complaints tiresome, but it does feel nice that she wants to defend me even if these shows have nothing to do with me.
Personally, I understand media representation is important. And I understand that it’s more normal for young people today to expect that than it was in the 80’s when I was a teen. Though it often seems to make a today’s shows more trite and predictable.
Bobby Fingers has the best definition of “woke,” one that I feel all can agree with, even if they are dismayed by the quality of his dashboards.
My favourite thing is asking them to define woke.
IMHO, you are woke if you exclude/damage who does not think exactly like you, and later also who thinks like you but he/she is not excluding/damaging the people you put in the black-list.
So it is a rather toxic and dangerous movement, resembling a little the Reign of Terror in France.
@mzan @Grandwolf319 So…The KKK is woke by your definition?
The definition was incomplete and a provocation. KKK acted in the name of white supremacy, while woke acts in the name of Social Justice. Obviously woke culture is a lot lot lot less violent of KKK. KKK were criminals. With woke culture at maximum you will do some years in prison due to false accusations, because you should “believe all women”, or you will loose the job, and you will never find similar jobs, for some nasty comment you done on some platform when you were a teenager… It can be compared also to McCarthyism.
In any case, the negative part of woke culture is the fanatism. Without the fanatism aspect, I will call a woke, an activist into social justice themes. I like activists. I’m scared from fanatics.
So… You have no clue what the word means
We already have a word for that, it’s called tribalism.
more attention for a cool floss game engine, I don’t see this as too bad
Why do we need a game engine just for one dance or dental hygiene activity. Seems oddly specific to two very different tasks.
feature creep
Let the fascist idiots stay with predatory tech like Unity. Fuck 'em all. Conservatives make shit games; they can stick with shit middleware.
Open source software is the wokest shit possible… It’s pretty much digital communism run by the gayest furries you’ll ever meet.
I can’t tell if you intent this as a positive or a negative, but it very much an accurate assessment.
Positive. I love FOSS culture, for the most part.
Love the communist gay furry part of it, the digital part not so much.
Why would you think it was negative? My only guess would be the way Leninists like to cosplay as Communists. And the way the west likes to smear communists by associating them with leninists.
I bookmarked this comment. It’s beautiful
It kinda depends on the license. Copyleft licenses are definitely digital communism–but licenses like CC or other extremely permissive licenses are digital libertarianism. I’m good with it in any case.
cc-by-sa is copyleft
It’s actually really funny to see review bomb attempts on a non-profit FOSS project. No shareholders to appease, no profits to they need to protect, just a community of people contributing to the tool they use.
I’d say, it’s a bit concerning since review bombing can turn away people who are uncertain about using Godot, or donating to it.
As a dev, seeing a bunch of reactionary fuck heads criticising Godot would make it more appealing. I like working with good people
I would be curious how many people in that boat find themselves looking at steam reviews in order to make a decision. It didn’t even occur to me until this happened that the reviews exist.
I also did not know the page existed
Time for Godot to get off Twitter.
I mean, it seems Godot did make money from this, so I guess the Twitter helped.
Twitter blows ass and if they hate you you’re probably right.
Not guaranteed. But a solid bet.
That’s a great way to look at it. You’re probably spot on.
Finally a place I can share my cold takes. (I’m not on Twitter, I won’t discuss this on Reddit either.)
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The community manager had a meltdown and blocking everyone was a power trip and was wrong.
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Godot’s tweet was wrong, because it used the word “woke” which immediately drives any conversation into the gutter. Doesn’t matter if you’re on the right or left, as soon as you say the word “woke” you have ruined the conversation.
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It is good that Godot explicitly supports LGBT+ people. They should be welcome. The community CoC should make this explicit, and it does. A tweet to reaffirm this is fine, a cringe joke born from the dredges of Twitter is less fine.
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Godot’s “revenge forks” are amusing and will not go anywhere. Someone might collect some donations before grifting into the night though.
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None of this has any effect on Godot’s technical suitability for creating a game.
I’ll share mine too.
The community manager had a meltdown and blocking everyone was a power trip and was wrong.
Apparently they did receive a large number of tweets that genuinely warranted a ban, but some innocent people got caught in the crossfire. If this is true then Godot did the right thing by responding as neutrally as they can and giving people a way to get unbanned. If it’s not, then yeah very wrong.
Additionally, the Twitter manager apparently said some unprofessional stuff on her personal. I think there was something about her requesting a shower pic from a very large controversial streamer. I feel like that sort of action would bring attention from trolls.
Also I think there was something about a discord mod saying some dehumanising things about the “anti woke” people. Even if these people were causing trouble and deserved a ban, you shouldn’t dehumanise them. That will just make them more aggressive and convince them that “woke” people are indeed some kind of adversary.
Godot’s tweet was wrong, because it used the word “woke” which immediately drives any conversation into the gutter. Doesn’t matter if you’re on the right or left, as soon as you say the word “woke” you have ruined the conversation.
I think that word is loosely defined. To the drama people “woke/wokism” seems to relate to the idea of people aggressively wanting all media to contain pro lgbt messaging. I think the official meaning relates to awareness of modern issues. “Woke” seems to be a political term, but I suppose some people feel like calling “woke” political is harmful to lgbt rights?
I think inviting people to present their “wokot” is fine, but it probably shouldn’t be done from an official account.
It is good that Godot explicitly supports LGBT+ people. They should be welcome. The community CoC should make this explicit, and it does. A tweet to reaffirm this is fine, a cringe joke born from the dredges of Twitter is less fine.
Hard agree! Strongly agree!
Godot’s “revenge forks” are amusing and will not go anywhere. Someone might collect some donations before grifting into the night though. None of this has any effect on Godot’s technical suitability for creating a game.
Agreed. Give it a year or two. Possibly sooner. It’ll be somewhat interesting if they do go somewhere and contribute something, although I doubt that will happen.
Regardless of what happened and how it will turn out. If Godot increased their budget, even if it was in an unprofessional way, I guess this is an entirely positive thing for people who aren’t on those proprietary social platforms.
Revenge fork is a weird name for these forks. A fork is a fork, even a tiny change like changing the logo is a legitimate fork.
If anything if the Godot community could stop harassing the fork owners, that would be great. Them receiving harassment is the most ironic part about this, because there is more proof of that than the harassment the Godot community manager claims they faced.
20% by 20%, the progress bar of me agreeing with this assessment went to a 100% as I was reading it.
as soon as you say the word “woke” you have ruined the conversation.
And as soon as you have “banned” a word from conversation regardless of context, you have ruined your credibility (in my eyes, obviously).
I did not suggest banning any words.
To understand why I’m opposed to the word “woke”, you must first acknowledge this fact:
Sometimes people have different definitions of the same word.
If you’re willing to accept that, then it logically follows that using a word that people have different definitions of will cause more confusion than understanding. If our goal in speaking is to convey understanding, then that is best accomplished by avoiding words where people have conflicting definitions.
We’ve all learned that there are facts and opinions, but there is a third category: definitions.
If you watch for it, you will see that many disagreements boil down to nothing more than disagreeing about the definition of a single word. If we temporarily avoid using that word, suddenly we find ourselves in agreement, or at least having a better understanding of each other.
This is a pretty common challenge in philosophy with a very obvious solution:
Define the controversial word (or words) at the top. It’s done all the time in science articles or legal documents.
You can even compound it to point out it’s your version (like calling it Lefty-woke).
By avoiding it, imo, you let them win and “claim” the word, since in their worldview, everyone is now using it like them.
Having said that, this is just my approach, I think the issue with politics is that people assume everyone is using the same language. You got to affirm or confirm that first.
Also, ironically, I think we are talking about the same thing, just using different words lol.
I hear you. It’s no good to just cede ownership of a word and allow others to define it however suits them. But… it’s Twitter, getting into a good faith philosophical discussion about the definitions of words ain’t going to happen, so in many cases it’s better to just not bring up the controversial words at all. Guess there’s pros and cons to each.
I mean, there are plenty of words that are used almost exclusively to cause offensive. Swears and slurs. Often it can be debatable whether or not a word counts as a swear or slur, but it’s usually pretty clear. I prefer to avoid using words that are intended to cause offence.
The word “woke” doesn’t seem to fall into these categories, but it’s still a term that seems to have been polarised by both groups. I don’t think that word would ruin a discussion that was already political, but it would definitely cause a discussion to become political.
As far as one group is concerned, being “woke” is inherently good and means being aware of modern issues and accepting of marginalised groups.
As far as the other is concerned, being “woke” is requiring all media to have this representation and lashing out when it isn’t inserted in a certain way; thus, you can be supportive of lgbt+ rights and the rights of marginalised groups while still being vehemently “anti woke”.Because of this conflict in definitions it’s understandable that the Twitter manager might want to use this term, and it’s understandable that people would be against it.
I feel the polarisation of this term may be being done for the drama people on both sides to farm engagement.
“Woke” is a problem because people have different definitions, and no matter what Webster or any other authority says the definition is, people will continue to have differing definitions.
How can we reach understanding when we don’t even agree on the definition of words?
This is way to nuanced to deal with on fucking Twitter. If you use the word “woke” on Twitter, expect a lot of misunderstanding, talking past each other, and bad faith arguments to follow.
When something really matters all we have is conversation, or violence. Words do not actually have innate definitions - they have usages that vary between individuals and between peoples over time. If we can understand what the person we’re talking to means then maybe we can come to understand each other.
I agree. That’s why I suggest (or more like implied) that when we know we have different definitions of a word, we avoid using that word. It’s a good thing to at least try if two people really care about understanding.
I agree and did that for the word “homophobia”. Saying it lead to a common response “I’m not afraid” but “having a phobia” wasn’t the subject matter (instead I say “aversion to homosexuality”, though I don’t have that conversation now since leaving Facebook/YouTube years ago).
How can we reach understanding when we don’t even agree on the definition of words?
I actually think this is the reason why there is so much polarization, we are literally talking different languages.
I’m not saying both sides are the same, the opposite actually, one side is willing to use standardized definitions or just use new ones specific to the discussion/debate.
The other side realized they can make people believe in a fascist fantasy by changing the meaning and more importantly, the emotional response behind the meaning.
And it’s not new, this is what it always comes down to. I argue for socialism because I am arguing for cooperating and equal ownership, others argue against it because they (for whatever fucking reason) hear tyranny cause you know, regulations means less freedom.
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That’s good and all…
But how do you pronounce Wokot?
Is it wuh-ko?
Maybe Woke-o?I MUST KNOW
@yetAnotherUser @db0 I have to assume, despite the spelling, that it is pronounced Whacko…Not even as a diss, just would find it incredibly amusing. “And dot” is right there too! idk.
Nice to see some figures on the change in support levels. I was donating €5 a month and I’ve bumped it up to €50 for the next few months.
I get the impression that a lot of the people complaining on twitter are not even gamedevs and don’t know what Godot is, it’s just the reactionary pile-on du jour.
a lot of the people complaining on twitter are not even gamedevs and don’t know what Godot is
You’re probably right. Homophobes aren’t the brightest of the bunch.
… since when did the project have customers lol?
is a service or product receiver only a customer if they are paying money?
I wouldn’t say it has to be money. Just that it has to be a formal exchange. I’d say the open source donation model is more “informal”.
I guess technically businesses like Microsoft were customers; I think there was something about them paying Godot to support C#.
Unreal, Godot, how do these fools think games get made?
This is evident in a few ways:
- How they subtly or glaringly misunderstand what it is and what it does
- How they call it “a company”
- How they pronounce it as GO-DOT
I’m new here, and I’ve been calling it “go-dot”. What’s the correct pronunciation?
@overcast5348 @moormaan The correct pronounciation is “Guh-Doh” or “Go-Doh”. Honestly, a lot of people pronounce it Go-dot, so it isn’t a big deal. But it is based of the play “Waiting for Godot” where they usually pronounce it like I have mentioned.
Agreed, no big deal. But YouTubers who knew about it before this controversy will typically use the intended pronouncing, and it’s easy to spot those who didn’t care much about it until this all started.
It sounds like G-DOUGH.
The lead developer Juan Linietsky pronounces it go-dot as well, though with the emphasis on the second syllable (arguably just a matter of accent). I also prefer that pronunciation. A lot of people pronounce it as if it’s French, since it happens to have a name that’s also known from a French play (see: the other replies).
I think it’s a GIF situation. Either way is broadly acceptable (though some people gatekeep on it; see above).
The flagbearer is ofc grummz, the terminally online ex-gamedev chud who turned to shit every game he touched and has had his right-wing grifting platform on Xitter massively boosted in recent years.
I don’t know shit about the situation (I don’t use twitter), but not being on the same side as Mark “Physiognomy” Kern seems like the right call.
Unsurprisingly most gamedevs, at least the ones that make good games, are either minorities themselves, or positive to their/our plight
After all, the best art isn’t made by the people who enshrine conservative ideals
I long for the days when people didn’t call any concept they disagreed with “political.”
Oh so you’re a conservative!
/s
It was just a tweet… And then they say that the “wokes” are the hypersensitive snowflakes?
It’s always projection.
Grrrr!! I hate WOKE! 😡😡 /s
I feel like it’s important to note that eating, breathing, and having a fun time with friends are all very LGBTQ+ activities! #woke
I stand in solidarity with Godot.
