• leisesprecher@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    2 months ago

    And what exactly is a logical reasoning?

    Pretty much all political reasoning is emotional, but for some reason, only the “other side” gets emotional.

    Wanting equality is an emotional reason. Wanting absolute freedom is emotional. Freedom of speech, aristocracy, fascism, anarchism, progressive income tax are all, if you keep asking “why?” emotional choices.

    If, at any point, someone says something is good or bad, well, that’s emotional, simply because these are purely human categories that are not rational.

      • NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.orgM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        You can make a purely rational environmental argument with reducing CO2 emissions.

        Please do this without resorting to an emotional motivation such as “People enjoy being alive and not suffering” or whatever.

          • NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.orgM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            What do to mean when you say “emotional argument”? I understand it as something like “an argument which rests on an appeal to an emotional experience” or similar.

            For example a mathematical proof is not an emotional argument, as a being without any emotions would be able to verify it as true.

            However “people don’t want to die, so you shouldn’t kill them” is an emotional argument as it fundamentally rests on the counterfactual “a person assumed to have qualia observing a universe in which they had been killed might experience negative valence”. Which only makes sense if the notion of another being you assume to have qualia being sad in a way which is impossible in reality upsets you.

      • leisesprecher@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        Of course that’s emotional.

        Reducing suffering is based on the idea that I don’t like suffering, therefore I don’t want others to suffer. That’s emotional.

          • leisesprecher@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            Philosophy is based on logic, not straight emotions

            Yeah, sorry, but that’s straight untrue.

            As I wrote before, every time you’re doing a value judgement, you’re arguing based on emotions.

            Saying shredding two animals causes more suffering than shredding no animals is a rational, provable statement. But whether suffering is bad or not, is a value judgement and thus not rational.

            If you say, “I don’t like suffering” to someone with a “no pain, no gain” shirt, your argument is weaker.

            And both of these statements are value judgement, you’re doing a category error here.

      • 🏴 hamid abbasi [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.orgM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        I don’t give a flying fuck about CO2. I care that you are murdering an animal and ending its life for no reason. Animals have rights including the right to live without your torturing them and mudering them. Everything else is out of scope for veganism. It is an ethical position advocating for the rights of animals, not a utilitarian calculation.

        • ambiguous_yelp@vegantheoryclub.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 month ago

          Please don’t call animals it, they are someone not something, changing the language around the oppression has a widespread knock on effect to changing people’s negative opinions towards non human animals

          • 🏴 hamid abbasi [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.orgM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 month ago

            I’ll try but please also be considerate of other users and the fact English isn’t everyone’s native language. English isn’t my first or only language. I will try my best but I will make this mistake often because this is difficult and I am not contributing to animal suffering because my native tongue doesn’t make this distinction at all.