No, that is NOT the issue. You said I would be first in line to defend them executing Russian soldiers. Which is absolutely false.
okay but… under your established premises, what is the distinction between using cluster bombs and this hypothetical—and why would you not be other than now recognizing how your position kind of inevitably leads to war crime apologia and not wanting to bite that bullet? arguably i’ve, under your premises, given you something more justifiable to work with because at least the hypothetical soldiers at one point were combatants trying to annex Ukraine. the civilians are just existing and are not guilty of anything.
No buts, this isn’t about cluster munitions anymore. This is about your conduct here.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Stop setting up straw men to tear down. It’s not acceptable for normal users, it’s not acceptable for moderators.
under your established premises
You clearly do not understand my premise if you think the accidental and tragic death of civilians from a unexploded ordinance is the same as executing POWs. I don’t even know how to respond, there is a clear difference.
…
Using cluster munitions has consequences, not using them also has consequences. This is a trolley problem with 2 shitty outcomes. However the people who have the most information, the most to gain, the most to loose, and have to deal with the ongoing consequences believe that adding cluster munitions to the arsenal is the best option. They have weighed the consequences of using them against not using them and they’re going to use them.
…
I have been nothing but polite and arguing in good faith. You have not. Be(e) nice, Be(e) Better.
Using cluster munitions has consequences, not using them also has consequences. This is a trolley problem with 2 shitty outcomes. However the people who have the most information, the most to gain, the most to loose, and have to deal with the ongoing consequences believe that adding cluster munitions to the arsenal is the best option. They have weighed the consequences of using them against not using them and they’re going to use them.
you’ve spent a bunch of time complaining that i’m being uncharitable to you (even though i’m using direct quotes from you and logically following from those quotes) and you’re again demonstrating what i mean here in different words. if they weigh the best option is to begin executing Russian soldiers—a thing they could do at any time and which under your premises you have no way of calling unjustified—how can your position here be anything but explicitly in favor of that? your position here outsources the entirety of itself to what Ukraine thinks should be done, and leaves no outs for what you think isn’t moral if Ukraine starts doing such things!
No, that is NOT the issue. You said I would be first in line to defend them executing Russian soldiers. Which is absolutely false.
Don’t put words in my mouth.
okay but… under your established premises, what is the distinction between using cluster bombs and this hypothetical—and why would you not be other than now recognizing how your position kind of inevitably leads to war crime apologia and not wanting to bite that bullet? arguably i’ve, under your premises, given you something more justifiable to work with because at least the hypothetical soldiers at one point were combatants trying to annex Ukraine. the civilians are just existing and are not guilty of anything.
No buts, this isn’t about cluster munitions anymore. This is about your conduct here.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Stop setting up straw men to tear down. It’s not acceptable for normal users, it’s not acceptable for moderators.
You clearly do not understand my premise if you think the accidental and tragic death of civilians from a unexploded ordinance is the same as executing POWs. I don’t even know how to respond, there is a clear difference.
…
Using cluster munitions has consequences, not using them also has consequences. This is a trolley problem with 2 shitty outcomes. However the people who have the most information, the most to gain, the most to loose, and have to deal with the ongoing consequences believe that adding cluster munitions to the arsenal is the best option. They have weighed the consequences of using them against not using them and they’re going to use them.
…
I have been nothing but polite and arguing in good faith. You have not. Be(e) nice, Be(e) Better.
you’ve spent a bunch of time complaining that i’m being uncharitable to you (even though i’m using direct quotes from you and logically following from those quotes) and you’re again demonstrating what i mean here in different words. if they weigh the best option is to begin executing Russian soldiers—a thing they could do at any time and which under your premises you have no way of calling unjustified—how can your position here be anything but explicitly in favor of that? your position here outsources the entirety of itself to what Ukraine thinks should be done, and leaves no outs for what you think isn’t moral if Ukraine starts doing such things!
Because you are.
I. Do. Not. Support. Ukraine. Executing. POWs. Full. Stop.
I’m done, you’re arguing in bad faith, and clearly have no intention of stopping.