• joe@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    On this I am in agreement with you, and have never used that argument. The only valid argument is “government can’t force people into organ donation slavery”.

    As I said elsewhere, I’ve had success by crafting a hypothetical wherein a person is forced by the government to provide a liver transplant to “save a life” and comparing it to forcing a pregnant person to give birth to “save a life”. I think many people don’t realize what power they’re granting the government.

    You should probably dial it back a little with the slavery part. While I’m sure you could justify it being there, it’s not going to convince anyone that isn’t already in agreement with you. Makes you seem a little out there. Just a tip.

    Those people who have “changed their mind” on abortion haven’t done so through rational discussion with those who know

    While it’s entirely possible I was lied to, I have had people admit that I have changed their stance on abortion. Not a lot, but also not zero. You give up too easily.

    Once white forced-birth mothers started dying, being forced to give still births, and crying on the witness stand

    Undoubtedly, but wouldn’t it be worthwhile to try and mitigate this instead of cynically waiting to take advantage of it?

    • DarraignTheSane@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You’re right, I do give up on “conservatives” and fascists. I don’t hold it against you for trying, but I believe that the only way to win with fascists is to not play their game, and to simply oppose them wherever and whenever they crop up. No, ultimately I don’t believe that you or anyone else who claims to have swayed a few opinions have ultimately made any difference in people with no regard for others, so I will continue to have no regard for them.

      • Kantiberl@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        That’s a pretty dangerous game to play. It just strengthens their resolve and blinds you from the genuine understanding of your fellow humans. I think your stance harms society.

        • DarraignTheSane@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You make the mistake of thinking that their resolve isn’t already absolute. I think it’s a luxury of ignorance of people who don’t live in deep red states and don’t know just how deep-seeded their fear and hatred of others is.

          And no, I will no longer strive for “understanding” of fascists who hate and harm others. I understand them perfectly well, and their views disgust me. Those who do continue to “strive for understanding” are only enabling them, and are the people who have allowed the situation to get as bad as it has in the U.S.

          But go ahead, keep tolerating the intolerant.

            • DarraignTheSane@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              No, allowing fascists to continue being fascists is what got us here. I had sympathy and understanding for those people in the past, and now we have Nazis. I’m done with sympathy/understanding/tolerance of those who have none.

        • DarraignTheSane@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You’re advocating for tolerating the intolerant. All you’re doing is being the Kaiser Wilhelm-looking character in this comic about the Paradox of Tolerance:

          https://i.imgur.com/Pelf2ob.jpg

          Karl Popper described this as a paradox, but it’s not even that.

          Tolerance is a social contract that we all agree to participate in. By not tolerating others, conversatives/fascists have broken the contract, and are then no longer bound by or protected by it. Therefore it is not wrong or paradoxical to not tolerate the intolerant.

          • joe@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You’re all over the place. I asked how “not playing their game” has worked out. Do you feel like your strategy is working?

              • joe@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                And is your tactic making life better for the millions of women who can no longer get a safe abortion?

                  • MelonTheMan@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I enjoyed reading your replies to this dolt. I think they try to exhaust you by muddying the water but all he’s done is make his position look utterly stupid and exhausting.

                    I think his goal is to make people afraid to engage and silence others from posting? Or maybe it’s simply to waste your time. Either way, I appreciate your attempt at engaging this bad faith “I’m on your side no really” actor.

                  • joe@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Yes. I have been told (though they could have been lying, but I don’t see why they would) that I have convinced people to switch their stance.

                    Does surreptitiously threatening to shoot people change minds, you think?