Lithium ion battery technology is not a good fit with the type of vehicles we currently produce. The energy density is nowhere near fossil fuels and this implies a big battery, which also adds mass. By 2027, Land Rover and other makers of SUV will be nudging 3000kg for some of their models.
IMHO the only viable solution for li-ion is ultralight vehicles. Bicycles and Velomobiles are light enough to get decent range at speed. A bicycle used with integrated high speed rail would solve most of our commuting problems. The fact is, whether you are making tailpipe emissions or not, F=ma. Moving a 3t mass around for one person is always going to use an extravagant amount of energy and that energy has to come from somewhere.
Work from home, eat less meat, make fewer journeys, use a bike more often, make fewer children. Those are some things most of us can do.
Eh, the current Camry hybrid weighs a little more than 3500lbs, the discontinued sr+ weighs a little over 3600. The lightest current Tesla is the (base?) rwd model at 3860.
It’s also a little sus to compare a compact ev with a mid size ice vehicle. Compare the Tesla to a corolla hybrid and you’re cooking with gas, but that’s a whole half ton lighter at 2850 or so.
Dimensionally and in terms of luggage capacity the Model 3 and Camry line up favourably. The Tesla is 110kg heavier, but is dimensionally similar and has a lot more luggage capacity than the Camry. I’m not going to touch performance as that’s just embarrassing for the Toyota.
You’re right! I didn’t look at the dimensions or the difference between the American “executive compact” class and normal compact cars lol.
E: I actually went looking and aside from being a foot or so narrower, the Corolla is closer to the model 3 in every dimension including luggage space (they may have used the hatchback in the measurement I looked at, the sedan isn’t popular in metric countries).
“15 minute” suburbs should fix the need of large ass SUVs and such but somehow authorities resist this, like they have a stake in this 🤔 15 minutes cities/villages is a common and logical thing around the world yet in US it is weird… like americans want to drive 20 minutes for fucking 1 liter of Pepsi… Now when car prices are insane more of them wake up. Suburbs should have places to go to, shops, parks, schools
That is an excellent point. We’ve created the requirement for cars by the way we’ve organised our societies. I live in the UK, a much smaller country but my work is a 1.5hr drive away or 2.5hr on train. I wouldn’t do this job without WFH but my employer is now pressing people to come back to the office. Likewise, all my amenities are a good distance away, within cycling range but zero cycle paths. I cycle to the train station but it doesn’t feel safe or pleasant around traffic and the train to work is actually more expensive than the drive.
Correct. The goal isn’t to take the meaning or joy out of life but do we really need 10b people and is that sustainable under capitalism? It doesn’t look like it is without making some change.
The weight issue is why I’m looking forward to (hopefully) seeing the Aptera make it to production. Being super aerodynamic and lighter weight so that it can charge up to 40 miles a day on solar alone. Lithium batteries would be better suited for this form factor.
Take public transit and advocate for more transit to replace car infrastructure, and for neighbourhoods to be made more walkable with a more even mix of commercial and residential. The latter can literally be as simple as lifting building use restrictions to allow people to open businesses in or on the same plot as residential homes and convert parts of commercial buildings to apartments.
Lithium ion battery technology is not a good fit with the type of vehicles we currently produce. The energy density is nowhere near fossil fuels and this implies a big battery, which also adds mass. By 2027, Land Rover and other makers of SUV will be nudging 3000kg for some of their models.
IMHO the only viable solution for li-ion is ultralight vehicles. Bicycles and Velomobiles are light enough to get decent range at speed. A bicycle used with integrated high speed rail would solve most of our commuting problems. The fact is, whether you are making tailpipe emissions or not, F=ma. Moving a 3t mass around for one person is always going to use an extravagant amount of energy and that energy has to come from somewhere.
Work from home, eat less meat, make fewer journeys, use a bike more often, make fewer children. Those are some things most of us can do.
Yes the energy density is less, but the efficiency is better. ICE wastes like 2/3 of that extra energy. Still has more, but 1/3 that you might think.
Blame the manufacturers and our obsession with driving land whales, not the batteries.
A Tesla Model 3 SR+ was almost the same weight as a Toyota Camry hybrid of similar shape and size.
EVs should weigh 2-300kg more at most
Eh, the current Camry hybrid weighs a little more than 3500lbs, the discontinued sr+ weighs a little over 3600. The lightest current Tesla is the (base?) rwd model at 3860.
It’s also a little sus to compare a compact ev with a mid size ice vehicle. Compare the Tesla to a corolla hybrid and you’re cooking with gas, but that’s a whole half ton lighter at 2850 or so.
Dimensionally and in terms of luggage capacity the Model 3 and Camry line up favourably. The Tesla is 110kg heavier, but is dimensionally similar and has a lot more luggage capacity than the Camry. I’m not going to touch performance as that’s just embarrassing for the Toyota.
Camry:
Overall length 4905mm Overall width 1840mm Overall height 1445mm
Luggage Capacity 524 Litres Kerb weight 1655kg
Model 3:
Overall length 4720mm Overall width 2089mm Overall height 1441mm
Luggage Capacity 682 Litres Kerb weight 1765kg
Electric cars are heavier than their ICE counterparts sure. But the driving force behind cars getting heavier is cars simply getting bigger.
Outside of a few niche cases there’s simply no reason for vehicles to be hitting 2.5-3 tonnes.
You’re right! I didn’t look at the dimensions or the difference between the American “executive compact” class and normal compact cars lol.
E: I actually went looking and aside from being a foot or so narrower, the Corolla is closer to the model 3 in every dimension including luggage space (they may have used the hatchback in the measurement I looked at, the sedan isn’t popular in metric countries).
“15 minute” suburbs should fix the need of large ass SUVs and such but somehow authorities resist this, like they have a stake in this 🤔 15 minutes cities/villages is a common and logical thing around the world yet in US it is weird… like americans want to drive 20 minutes for fucking 1 liter of Pepsi… Now when car prices are insane more of them wake up. Suburbs should have places to go to, shops, parks, schools
That is an excellent point. We’ve created the requirement for cars by the way we’ve organised our societies. I live in the UK, a much smaller country but my work is a 1.5hr drive away or 2.5hr on train. I wouldn’t do this job without WFH but my employer is now pressing people to come back to the office. Likewise, all my amenities are a good distance away, within cycling range but zero cycle paths. I cycle to the train station but it doesn’t feel safe or pleasant around traffic and the train to work is actually more expensive than the drive.
If we aim for sustainable living, the number of kids don’t matter, surely?
Correct. The goal isn’t to take the meaning or joy out of life but do we really need 10b people and is that sustainable under capitalism? It doesn’t look like it is without making some change.
In what way is 10 billion people not sustainable?
The weight issue is why I’m looking forward to (hopefully) seeing the Aptera make it to production. Being super aerodynamic and lighter weight so that it can charge up to 40 miles a day on solar alone. Lithium batteries would be better suited for this form factor.
Take public transit and advocate for more transit to replace car infrastructure, and for neighbourhoods to be made more walkable with a more even mix of commercial and residential. The latter can literally be as simple as lifting building use restrictions to allow people to open businesses in or on the same plot as residential homes and convert parts of commercial buildings to apartments.