You want to know why China is so absurdly cheap for everything? This is part of the reason why. I wonder how many prison mining camps, prison garment/textile camps, etc. Are operating with the sole goal of keeping costs as absolutely rock bottom as possible. China is making a killing by undercutting the global market on costs for just about everything.
I don’t believe that. Chinas prison stats are around 1.69mil (which is oddly on par with the US - per capita not taken into consideration). However, per the Global Slavery Index, there’s an estimated 5.8 million people enslaved there. And we know that there were over 1 million Uyghur Muslims, and we really don’t even know the extent to which that is happening either.
I’d be willing to bet that there’s a lot more slave/prison labor going over there than even we realize.
In the US, we don’t call them slaves. We call them prisoners. That’s how we stay off the index.
Never mind that we intentionally arrest specific racial groups more than others, and that the laws are such that you can be arrested for almost anything, including things like “looking suspicious while driving and then resisting arrest.”
Slavery never left America. We just decided to start including some poor white people too.
Do they count extreme work hours as effective slavery? If so, then I wouldn’t be surprised at all if China has more “slavery”. If not, then you’ll have to quantify your numbers as well. If they’re including things that are only effectively slavery, then both countries have millions upon millions more than either of those stats, so where the line is drawn makes all the difference.
The GSI is not a reliable index. The Walk Free initiative that publishes the GSI doesn’t use a consistent methodology for every country and will also uncritically accepts reports of human trafficking from unreliable sources.
For example, their report on China includes unverified claims of harvesting organs from members of the Falun Gong, a right wing cult operating out of the US. The Falun Gong also operates the Epoch Times which is a far right conspiratorial newspaper that has promoted Qanon, antivax propaganda, and claims of election fraud in the 2020 US presidential election. You can not trust their testimony on faith alone and yet that’s what Walk Free did.
There are no real numbers from china, how many people are actually imprisoned or what even means imprisoned. For example the Uyghurs are not Prisoners in Prison but “Citizens in reeducation camps”- what is a lie. Pictures show they are indeed imprisoned . China is fudging these numbers like the economy numbers at a grand scale.
China is able to force people to work in certain regions or cities. They have a complex system on how to channel work by prohibiting living-, healthcare- and pensions-systems to citizens based on their location and citizens need to apply for changes to these systems to be able to work in other regions.
China - as an authoritarian regime - can force every prisoner to work if they deem it useful. The US has different rules for penal labor, but not make prisoners work like china. The US has a much different landscape.
China undercut every good, in every sector (except some high tech sectors) based on their vast (forced) workforce but also in the strategic sense. They act like Uber (or is Uber acting like China?) in the sense, that their strategy in the last 4 decades was to undercut e.g. Steel-Production for their own advances, but also to cripple the industries in the US and the West in general to come out as the sole supplier for these products and services to then control the prices (like Uber). The US Steelworker Industry is practically gone by now. They did the same with raw-materials and lately with Solar, where they undercut the European (German) markets, to cripple it and control the production/income/spread.
They have a complex system on how to channel work by prohibiting living-, healthcare- and pensions-systems to citizens based on their location and citizens need to apply for changes to these systems to be able to work in other regions.
This is called indentured servitude, it was common in feudal societies.
BTW, you should add a new line between points to have proper formatting
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction
Coincidentally, those convicted parties are predominantly Black.
Like, do you actually think this is a real defense for China’s behavior? Or are you just blustering because you understand there is no defense and that hurts your world view?
Instead, China uses their prison population to bolster their organ transplant market.
Edit: I wonder if the people who downvoted realise that China admitted they had been harvesting organs from prisoners but claimed it was voluntary and that they were stopping. Meanwhile, the exponential growth of their transplant industry continued beyond 2014.
Don’t get me wrong though prisoners still earn a pittance, anything under 2 Euros/hour has just been declared definitely unconstitutional – that’s raw, untaxed wage though without deduction for any costs, a day of prison costs the state something like 120 Euros and those grills sell like hotcakes even at those prices so why would the state lower prices.
What you should definitely look at in this context is, two things: First, where the money is flowing: Are the prisons hiring out prisoners at a pittance allowing private companies to reap profit still burdening society with the full costs of lockup – or, worse, the profits exceeding the lockup costs and prisoners not seeing a cent of that excess. That’s called straight-up slavery, no ambiguity or grey zone to be had there. Secondly, whether the prisoners actually and truly benefit – and I don’t really mean in monetary terms (though if you go poor to prison you definitely shouldn’t go out indebted, that’s bad policy), but in terms of being able to get a proper and dignified job afterwards: Mindlessly folding cardboard boxes which a machine could do for cheaper if it wasn’t for the fact that you’re earning a cent an hour vs. to wit above, people becoming skilled metalworkers. One of those makes recidivism less likely, the other teaches inmates that labour is something no sane person would ever want to do.
I don’t remember what it was called, but I seem to recall there being some sort of documentary or movie or something of the likes about someone here in the US who found a note from a prisoner in their brand new pack of Christmas lights (or some similar holiday product).
You want to know why China is so absurdly cheap for everything? This is part of the reason why. I wonder how many prison mining camps, prison garment/textile camps, etc. Are operating with the sole goal of keeping costs as absolutely rock bottom as possible. China is making a killing by undercutting the global market on costs for just about everything.
Forced prison labour is the foundation of a number of economies, including the US’. It’s explicitly not prohibited in the Constitution.
China can’t use prison labour to undercut global markets because they have a smaller prison labour pool than their key economic competitor (the US).
I don’t believe that. Chinas prison stats are around 1.69mil (which is oddly on par with the US - per capita not taken into consideration). However, per the Global Slavery Index, there’s an estimated 5.8 million people enslaved there. And we know that there were over 1 million Uyghur Muslims, and we really don’t even know the extent to which that is happening either.
I’d be willing to bet that there’s a lot more slave/prison labor going over there than even we realize.
In the US, we don’t call them slaves. We call them prisoners. That’s how we stay off the index.
Never mind that we intentionally arrest specific racial groups more than others, and that the laws are such that you can be arrested for almost anything, including things like “looking suspicious while driving and then resisting arrest.”
Slavery never left America. We just decided to start including some poor white people too.
At least half of them were forced into it by the government and are keen on reminding everyone else about it with their douchey flags.
Yeah, I wouldn’t put much stock into statistics coming from the Chinese government.
Do they count extreme work hours as effective slavery? If so, then I wouldn’t be surprised at all if China has more “slavery”. If not, then you’ll have to quantify your numbers as well. If they’re including things that are only effectively slavery, then both countries have millions upon millions more than either of those stats, so where the line is drawn makes all the difference.
Company towns are effective slavery.
The GSI is not a reliable index. The Walk Free initiative that publishes the GSI doesn’t use a consistent methodology for every country and will also uncritically accepts reports of human trafficking from unreliable sources.
For example, their report on China includes unverified claims of harvesting organs from members of the Falun Gong, a right wing cult operating out of the US. The Falun Gong also operates the Epoch Times which is a far right conspiratorial newspaper that has promoted Qanon, antivax propaganda, and claims of election fraud in the 2020 US presidential election. You can not trust their testimony on faith alone and yet that’s what Walk Free did.
This post has so many controversial aspects:
This is called indentured servitude, it was common in feudal societies.
BTW, you should add a new line between points to have proper formatting
Tell it to the 13th Amendment:
Coincidentally, those convicted parties are predominantly Black.
Person A: it’s bad that China is bad.
Person B: OMFG but USA bad too!
Like, do you actually think this is a real defense for China’s behavior? Or are you just blustering because you understand there is no defense and that hurts your world view?
The OP claimed China has a competitive edge from prison labour. I disproved that statement.
Not really. Because China’a numbers are demonstrably false. It’s the good old “you can’t prove it’s happening if we just don’t count them” logic.
You can disprove China’s numbers… How, exactly?
Satellites help.
Instead, China uses their prison population to bolster their organ transplant market.
Edit: I wonder if the people who downvoted realise that China admitted they had been harvesting organs from prisoners but claimed it was voluntary and that they were stopping. Meanwhile, the exponential growth of their transplant industry continued beyond 2014.
I’m hearing this happens with the bodies of Palestinians as well.
Zydrate comes in a little glass vial
Cool, I was just thinking the answer to this problem was either ‘both sides’ or ‘what about’.
Meanwhile, the price of products of prison labour in Germany. About the best grills you can get, anywhere, period. All 2mm stainless, well thought through design (removable rods!), excellent craftsmanship.
Don’t get me wrong though prisoners still earn a pittance, anything under 2 Euros/hour has just been declared definitely unconstitutional – that’s raw, untaxed wage though without deduction for any costs, a day of prison costs the state something like 120 Euros and those grills sell like hotcakes even at those prices so why would the state lower prices.
What you should definitely look at in this context is, two things: First, where the money is flowing: Are the prisons hiring out prisoners at a pittance allowing private companies to reap profit still burdening society with the full costs of lockup – or, worse, the profits exceeding the lockup costs and prisoners not seeing a cent of that excess. That’s called straight-up slavery, no ambiguity or grey zone to be had there. Secondly, whether the prisoners actually and truly benefit – and I don’t really mean in monetary terms (though if you go poor to prison you definitely shouldn’t go out indebted, that’s bad policy), but in terms of being able to get a proper and dignified job afterwards: Mindlessly folding cardboard boxes which a machine could do for cheaper if it wasn’t for the fact that you’re earning a cent an hour vs. to wit above, people becoming skilled metalworkers. One of those makes recidivism less likely, the other teaches inmates that labour is something no sane person would ever want to do.
Not just China!
QI show about US prisons: https://youtu.be/sHz2Hmq7soo … so many years ago, so it’s slightly out of date.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/sHz2Hmq7soo
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I don’t remember what it was called, but I seem to recall there being some sort of documentary or movie or something of the likes about someone here in the US who found a note from a prisoner in their brand new pack of Christmas lights (or some similar holiday product).
Edit: a word.
Prisoners prop up global powers.
Whose being?
Thanks for pointing out that mistake. Meant there.