Quote: “We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do it again and again. The Al-Aqsa Deluge [the name Hamas gave its 7 October onslaught - ed.] is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth. Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”
Who’s doing that?
You’ll find a lot of comments along the lines of the Hamas government and Hamas terrorist organization being fundamentally separate entities. You’ll also find a lot of people dismissing the claims in articles like this one or trying to paint anyone in Hamas inciting violence as ‘not important’.
The idea is to foster a narrative to paint Israel as ‘just as bad as hamas’ and while Israel has done many bad things, the gap between the two is massive. I think it mostly comes from a desire to paint one side as ‘good’ and one side as ‘evil’ which isn’t always easy.
That’s a good point, Israel has done a lot more damage to the people of Palestine than Hamas has to Israelites.
Over 30 Harvard organizations said Israel is “entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.”
A Columbia professor called it “innovative Palestinian resistance”
A Cornell professor called the attacks “exhilarating” and “energizing"
Student groups.
Almost all muslim student groups.
Who immediately got denounced hard by every other Harvard institution.
Mostly true, not supporting Hamas.
It’s innovative, and starting the attack when the occupation soldiers have just moved to terrorize the West bank is pretty smart.
Eh, maybe if that was said on the first day of the attack, but it got ugly quickly. They almost sank to the IDF’s level.
Blaming the violence of Oct 7 (which Hamas did) on Israel is not defending Hamas? Walk me through that logic.
Please stop gaslighting people and saying that no one is defending Hamas.
Blaming Hamas for the situation the occupation government made, which helped radicalize people and secure funding for Hamas is not defending the disgusting occupation?
You are literally justifying the Oct. 7 massacre of civilians including babies, peace activists, and elderly. So don’t try to tell me that there are not people defending the actions of Hamas.
I usually like to blame the murderer for the murder. There’s certainly contributing reasons for why they killed the person, but they’re still the ones who killed the person.
maybe “blaming Hamas entirely” would have been better, but I was trying to maintain the format of the comment I was replying to.
Gotcha. I think there’s a very careful distinction here between justification and reasoning, and it’s all too easy to get the wording wrong. Israel created reasons for Hamas to do what they did, but that does not mean Hamas is justified in their violence. I blame Hamas entirely for the terrorist attack, but I don’t blame just them for how we got here. The conservative Israeli government is also to blame for this state of affairs, but they’re not responsible for the terrorist attack.
The situation was created by the Palestinians starting a large war in 2001 and maintaining warfare since,Israel naturally refuses to give up the West Bank so the Palestinians can do shit using the WB as a launchpad.
The situation was created by Europeans deciding that this was their ancestral homeland and colonizing, displacing populations, taking people’s homes. There is no complicated story here, it’s just genocidal colonization.
Many people are calling Hamas “freedom fighters” and outright defending its actions. I would say a significant portion of Fediverse users fall into this camp, from what I’ve seen.
A majority? Well, you’re either lying or you have a severely distorted view of reality.
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We’re simply calling for the stop of oppression and genocide and ethnic cleansing, if that constitute supporting Hamas then you be you.
No, I mean people literally calling Hamas “freedom fighters”, and outright cheering them on. There’s a difference between “calling for the stop of oppression and genocide and ethnic cleansing” and blatantly supporting the actions of a terror organization.
People cheer for nazis, too. Are you going to make a generic claim that “It’s mind-blowing that people defend these monsters” as well? Maybe you should make a comment about people who “defend” mass shooters too! Let’s not forget all those “defenders” of eugenics.
Just because you see one or two people making propaganda doesn’t mean it’s something reasonable people are doing.
Yes. If I ever see a significant number of people defending the Nazis in spaces I speak in I will say exactly that.
In fact that’s exactly what you should do, they need to be called out.
Man, when you go outside some time you’re going to have your mind absolutely shattered at all the surprising things people do.
It’s a meaningless phrase meant to distance yourself from something distasteful. It has no bearing on anything but the person saying it, unless they’re using it as a dog-whistle to call out people who are saying something they don’t like, as BaldProphet is doing above.
You seem quite disturbed and angered by the fact that I would be disturbed and voice that worry if I saw a bunch of Nazis around.
You have a poor grasp of the situation if that’s how you’re interpreting it.
I don’t believe it is reasonable, but as I said, I am surprised by how many people are unreasonably supportive of Hamas, despite otherwise priding themselves on being progressive forward-thinkers.
Probably because you’re misinterpreting lack of support for Israel as support of Hamas.
You think most people here are like that? Most people seem to be appalled by what Hamas did on October 7th. Most people also seem to be appalled by Israel killing huge numbers of civilians.
Yes, but i rarely see the latter, mostly former.
There’s no need to be defensive. I find both the IDF and Hamas detestable, and I’ve seen support for both here. There isn’t a lot of pro IDF support, but I call it out still. Even a little bit is too much.
Calling out someone lumping anti-oppression/anti-genocide with pro-hamas is defensive? That’s the narrative pro-idf keep pushing.
That’s not what the person you were speaking to was saying. They were talking about people who were actually defending Hamas, not just criticizing Israel. They didn’t lump the two together. The IDF and it’s supporters love pushing that, but there’s no need to automatically assume someone is on their side when they talk about seeing pro Hamas people.
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Did you replied to the wrong comment or something?
Looks like I did. Sorry for the trouble.
I have never seen anyone supporting hamas, at most justifying the legitimacy of some of its objectives and the right to fight for them, but not its actions; always being critical of hamas and its war crimes.
In fact, high tolerance or even open support for war crimes is something I have only seen on the zionist side.
You’ve got people doing it in this very thread. Blaming Israel for Hamas murdering people isn’t exactly being critical of their actions.
https://lemmy.world/comment/5040910
Prime example from above. And it’s net positive on votes.
Edit: Why can’t we simply agree that supporting the IDF is fucked up, supporting Hamas is fucked up, and they’re all awful people?
I saw comments explicitly supporting Hamas and their recent actions on Lemmygrad a few weeks ago. Someone was even posting about how they hoped hostages get tortured by Hamas. I haven’t gone back but I assume you can still find those people there. They aren’t really any different than the Zionist extremists who support IDF war crimes, they just use different language to justify the horror.
I completely believe you, but pointing at Lemmygrad for anything like that is kind of a low bar. If there’s any possibility that it could go against Western Interests, the community is automatically for it. They don’t really care what’s actually going on, they just work backwards from being ‘Anti-Western’ and figure out how to support it later.
There is nothing legitimate about Hamas. It is a terror organization.
dismantling settlements, cleansing the land of the IDF, and regaining their land are all legitimate objectives and should be supported.
Funni sounds like gaming.
That’s not a great argument. Just because your objectives are legitimate doesn’t mean your actions are legitimate.
He’s saying that Hamas isn’t legitimate because they committed atrocities. I will never accept this until people acknowledge that the occupation government isn’t legitimate, and doesn’t deserve a dime.
Let me be clear here: if you have to choose the lesser of two evils, then the occupation government will not be your choice, no matter what’s on the other side.
I feel like your argument here gets slippery very quickly. You’re basically advocating for ‘win at all costs’ if you’re on a specific side and that’s real hard to support.
Advocating for a “win at all costs” strategy is something you should accuse people supporting the murder of dozens of people because there’s a Hamas leader amongst them (still disputed) of.
I don’t want civilians to be harmed and I don’t support terrorizing people until they retaliate. those two qualities make me a better person compared to any occupation government supporter (person on the other side). lets say that I support the murder of civilians until Hamas achieves their objectives, that would only bring me down to their level, if not a little higher.
I don’t understand this way of thinking. Why does what people believe about the legitimacy of the Israeli government have any effect on your acceptance of atrocities?
It doesn’t, atrocities are atrocities, but if people think that Hamas isn’t legitimate for their atrocities, then the occupation government is even less legitimate for theirs.