What’s the state of Poland, though?
And yet they never seem to want to move to china or russia.
“No, I want to ruin my country!”
No why would they do that
They need a Holiday in Cambodia
“Gotta say, I’ve noticed how many people are dressed in black around here…”
Cambodia is awesome, a holiday there would really be a great idea
Bold of you to assume Lemmygrad isn’t already Russian
Nah, lemmygrad is 100 percent American.
Just a coincidence they spontaneously parrot all of Putin’s talking points?
Nah, I’m not saying they’re all Russian, but they’re clearly compromised somewhere. A lot of somewheres.
I totally understand the reasoning behind thinking it’s state actors or certain members being shills–But there’s not much to gain for governments to shill in niche, extremist communities. Why shill your loyal followers when they parrot everything already? Instead, it’s much more effective to use large, mainstream social media websites, like Twitter, Reddit or Facebook, just check out anything politically trending to see the shills and contrast them with these users.
It is true, these small communities do swallow up state propaganda without much thought, but they aren’t shills. Most are just lonely people who hate everything and themselves.
I think it’s fairly important to remember that Hexbear/Lemmygrad are basically why Lemmy exists, and largely emigrated after the Reddit Chapo ban, at least as far as I understand things.
They weren’t entirely niche communities at first, and now they’re the most active communities on Lemmy, which may or may not grow into something bigger, but most importantly they’ve inherited the damage the used to have.
I mean, have you ever listened to ChapoTrapHouse? They were pretty solidly democratic socialist. Something happened to that community to turn it into Hexbear. It could have been natural, but their messaging is just so consistent it seems unlikely.
They never looked dem soc to me as they advocated liberally for the venezuelan militia to murder venezuelans protesting the socialist dictatorship and parroted Venezuela’s government party line to anyone that cared to listen
Denying? That’s outright praise.
All that organ harvesting torture and sexual assault of prisoners and human rights violations… uhm hmhm um ashtually you see it was all just a very successful deradiclisation campaign m’lady
This shit is so embarrassing
I’m having a hard time accepting that lemmygrad and hexbear are practically official Lemmy shit, instead of just these weird parasitic communities that flocked to a more open platform after being banned everywhere else.
This is a factor in why I really want kbin/mbin to succeed. I also think it has the potential to be the better platform, but only time will tell.
I think both kinda suck, so I’m making my own that’s completely distributed instead of federated. That way hosting costs are near zero (just need some P2P nodes and a download server) and scaling to higher user counts should be automatic if I build it right.
The problem is that building it right is hard, and I don’t have a ton of time.
You got more details? Is it up on github?
Not yet, but I’ll definitely post something when I get to a point where I’m ready to share the code. I definitely want it to be open source, I just want enough functionality there so the long term vision is clear.
But here’s some details of what I’m trying to achieve:
- web of trust-based moderation - no “mods,” only metadata from people you trust (upvotes, downvotes, blocks, etc)
- all storage on devices of users of the service - the more storage you provide, the better your experience; your preferred communities have first priority, but everyone stores something random from the service
- text posts only, at least to start - images/videos need to be hosted elsewhere
I’m building it initially as a desktop app, but I’ll port it later to mobile and maybe web (still trying to figure out how web would work; maybe some notion of instances?).
I’m hoping to bridge to lemmy with an ActivityPub service to get content, but I’m not working on that until the above is ready.
This sounds interesting, but how do you plan on stopping illegal content being stored on users devices? If there is any chance a user could unknowingly be hosting illegal content that could lead to some very big issues.
Still working on that, but I have some ideas:
- text only - images, videos, and other binary content must be stored elsewhere (could still have links though)
- data is stored encrypted (user option) - wouldn’t show up in scans
- clear separation between “stuff I’m interested in” and “random stuff I’m hosting for the network” - plausible deniability
- perhaps an option to opt out of random data storage - you’d still store stuff you’re interested in
But yeah, that’s a huge part of why I’m unwilling to share the code until I’m comfortable with the moderation engine. I think there’s an opportunity to use that moderation engine to reduce storage of CSAM (i.e. don’t store data from blocked users).
Web of trust sounds interesting. What language(s) are you using to build it?
Rust on backend, React frontend.
Sounds efficient. Lmk if/ when you make the repo public.
Sure thing. I’ll probably make a post about it once I nail down the functionality and start looking for people to help out with UX and features and whatnot.
You mean scuttlebutt? Or something with content addressing like a fork of bluesky?
Content addressing. I’m using Iroh.
Wouldn’t a fork be easier? I have high hopes for mbin but I really can’t understand why Lemmy hasn’t been forked yet.
Go to lemmygrad.ml and post about Russia or China. You will read insane ramblings about projections. Somehow the argument is always “look at this bad thing in the west, here is completely misinformed info about your country, look how good Russia/China, skip over genocides you are projecting it is happening in the West, to finish my argument Are You a Nazi?!”.
Yougoslavia was created by soviets/russia. His beloved communists. I am super interested in what mind gymnastics he has to excuse that.
He could have gone with Africa or Middle East, much better example of collosal fuck ups of Ze Bad West. But that would require knowledge of history longer than 50 years.
Also crying about Poland. As a guy living in Poland, hearing stories of people that fought in WWII and people that lived in communist Poland, I am so interested in how these first hand accounts are US misinformation.
I was banned from Lemmygrad for statements that were critical of the authority of the USSR, and writings of their savior Karl M.
I was banned from Lemmy.world for anti-zionism. Most of the Lemmy side of the fediverse seems infested with authoritarianism that’s as bad as Reddit’s corporatism.
My bans from lemmy.ml have all come from literally arguing that there are a solid 150 years worth of academic ideas building on Marx and that taking Marxist orthodoxy as the exclusive socialist dogma in that context is simply ignorant.
I am starting to think that they hate revisionist socialists more than actual capitalists, because it seeks to deny them the thing they really want, which is a justification for violence and totalitarianism.
They’re conservatives. Hierarchy is the only way they decide what’s real. It’s the same tribalist thinking that produced the Lady Hope hoax - saying Darwin recanted on his deathbed, as if that would cancel out the last 150 years of evolutionary biology. They genuinely do not understand science or philosophy, because they don’t believe arguments can be evaluated, except in terms of interpersonal trust.
So in their minds - if Marx was wrong, about anything, then the whole business might as well be made-up. It is impossible for someone to simply be wrong. They have to be lesser. They must be undeserving of their station, because their station is the only reason they get to decide what is true.
In this worldview, it is your job to make whatever mouth noises justify that mutable truth. I say “your job” because this is all they think you’re doing. This is all they think there is. There is no other force in their moral universe. This is quite possibly the human brain’s default behavior, and it is not fragile.
Okay, yes, this was my exact experience as well. I don’t recall where I got banned, but I was simply making the point that we should use the best bits of socialism and merge them with more modern systems.
They did NOT like that. It seems so incredibly reasonable, and mild to suggest stuff like this… Like, these people really are the “snowflakes” the right attests them to be.
I posted this before, but I really believe these instances are run by APTs.
It is not the first nor last time that extremists are being used by state-run aparatus.
Leftist fetishism for ideological purism is what will always lead to their demise any time they manage to get any meaningful power.
I liked it when we mostly focused on welfare, education, and safety regulation. Those were the things that really mattered.
The proletariat seizing the means of reproduction and having riotous revolutionary street parties with burning vehicles and smashed windows and firing squads for the sake of ending worker alienation isn’t really something that will help anyone with anything.
Especially if you’re just gonna top it all off by handing over power to a group of cruel hardasses when you’re done, when you’ve got your fill of raging against the city.
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I will always advocate the people leave those platforms and go to other instances. I don’t know why everybody moved over to Lemmy.world when people left reddit. I assume it must have been heavily promoted over there although I never saw it.
Been on a smaller instance has only upside, it’s far less likely to go completely insane and then get itself defederated from other instances, it does not tend to get DDoS attacks as much, and you can still access all the content on those larger instances, assuming you want to.
I think it was the largest, and people just went to the largest group, making it even larger. That just accelerated the issues with that instance. There ideally would have been instance finding tools that prioritized spreading new users out, but oh well.
I should have known better myself. I’ve been around long enough to know that the biggest groups are the first targets for authority-minded people.
Been on a smaller instance has only upside
Unlike every previous service.
Lemmy.world is run by Enlightened Centrists. People who think we should all just get along, and calmly discuss these life-and-death matters, no matter how demonstrably wrong a lie is, or how much bad-faith abuse someone spits.
At this point - any internet community demanding “civility” is a red flag for bad moderation. “Be nice!” means they’re not prepared to treat ‘stop implying I’m subhuman, asshole’ as the justified response to a troll with a rear-mounted boot slot that needs filling. And even then it’s a coin-toss. You can spend immense effort restraining and editing responses to complete bullshit, guiding someone by-the-nose through why they’re blatantly fucking wrong, while they keep trying to make that personal through chest-beating and snide remarks… and then watch then give up all pretense and spit the worst insults they can imagine over dry criticism of what they choose to say… and see your reports of idiotic directed abuse go absolutely nowhere.
If your rules effectively run interference for bastards, fuck your rules.
I like you.
Seems unlikely they’d do that, perhaps the angle you took might have triggered them. They tend to know their history and cite well, and get lied about a lot, so they’re suspicious of people who might get details wrong and probably take them for trolls.
their savior Karl M
Obviously I can’t fairly judge what you wrote but you are at the very least not left wing right?
I’m very left wing. So left wing that I recognize that the USSR was a capitalist authoritarian state with central wealth distribution. Even Marxists can mistake the map for the territory. Marx isn’t Christ and Das Kapital isn’t a bible, but don’t tell them.
As someone who has actually studied political science, they absolutely do not know their history well lmao. They are (shitty) Orthodox Marxists and react quite strongly to being shown anything outside of that 150 year old bubble.
They know a few core historical anecdotes that MLs cling to. But their knowledge breaks down extremely quickly when you try to reduce political science and statecraft to academic first principles, even when those principles intersect strongly with their ML orthodoxy.
They are campists. They form their philosophy around relitigating cold war drama more than anything to do with actual socialism.
What would you have them read to remedy this?
And to take a current event as a litmus test since I don’t know you or your bias, do you condemn Israel’s racism, zionist ideology and their war crimes etc?
So many things. But I’d start with The Ethics of Ambiguity to temper the autocratic revolution fetish.
(I edited my comment apparently shortly after you replied btw).
I’m not sure why you believe I owe you a litmus test.
There is no right answer to the Israel situation, other than secular unification. You will not find me mounting a vocal defense of any theocracy or ethnostate.
You can view lemmygrad and hexbear’s modlog. They ban anything they consider “liberal”
Does anyone create a social media platform without being an absolute nutjob? Tom from Myspace, maybe?
Don’t quote me on this but I went to school with Tom and, during a dissection, nicked my finger with a scalpel. He quickly lifted my hand and proceeded to suck my finger for the rest of class. It took 3 large men to separate my digit from his mouth and 2 more to fish out my fingertip. I heard they pumped 3 pints of blood from his stomach.
I worked with Tom at a pizza hut in the 90s. Dude would always stick his dick in the pizza oven. I never noticed any crazy behavior from him, though.
Forever <3 CJayC, but GameFAQs didn’t start as forums.
I once looked up a question about an old videogame and Google directed me to GameFAQs, to a comment made by me that answered it.
Which I think is part of their problem, right?
They’re supposed to be a guide site but they became about the forum.
Eh, the forum era was pretty great itself. There are many guides and FAQs and resources that wouldn’t exist without the collaborative environment of the forums. They were an important part of the GameFAQs equation. The real problem is that the admin who took over after CJayC stepped down just didn’t have it. He wasn’t as principled as CJayC. He loaded the place up with super obtrusive ads and cared more about the letter of the law than the spirit of the community. Then reddit and the wikia/Fandom ecosystems started to replace the function of the declining GameFAQs. And that’s kind of our current normal, although the flaws in it are becoming more and more apparent.
Could anyone please add more context? I see some reddit user spewing some bullshit, but how do we know that’s Dessalines? Genuine question…
The irony that he started lemmy because he got a ban and then does the same shit on his own platform.
Power corrupts but as others have said, the joke is on them as it is decentralized and no longer theirs. They just helped start it.
I think that was intended
There’s a section in the install docs about how Lemmy is designed to be anti censorship and for the people, and I think this lines up with the devs’ values
This leads me to think that the dev has very good intentions, but is supremely blind to his biases.
sounds like a regular human
Yeah. Pretty much. Except his blindness is making him justify a genocidal regime.
yeah that’s what I think as well
Thanks. Ugh, I don’t want to use lemmy anymore now…
Using their own creation against them is poetic justice though. Nothing stopping anyone from forking the backend either.
Or you could just join an instance that isn’t federated with lemmy.ml
Is literature.cafe defederated with them?
Nah, just Lemmygrad and Hexbear, but if it gets too annoying I’ll find one that is. I’ve gotten no pushbacks criticizing Marx, Lenin, or Stalin there, personally speaking.
lemm.ee is the opposite (doesn’t defed from them) and pretty liberal-minded for anybody looking for that.
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Block should be handled by client so any user can decide for themselves.
Raddle isn’t an option obviously since it’s run by this arch anti tankie scum, ziq.
I don’t see how that essay is about-- oh, ziq is the author. Ohhh this asshole thinks that’s a bad thing.
… should we have been on Raddle?
Holy shit that’s bad.
I use Kbin so I don’t really care, but couldn’t someone with at least a little bit of sanity just fork Lemmy? Or at the very least create more instances that aren’t run by brainless delusional extremists…
I agree with the sentiment of forking lemmy. It’ll add more alternative platforms aswell which Is great
I believe beehaw is currently doing that, and I wouldn’t be surprised if other instance developers are doing the same in their own time.
Beehaw is not forking Lemmy. It’s just leaving Lemmy for their own webpage, a forum or something like that. I really appreciate the idea of forking Lemmy, but nobody seems to think about that.
I’m thinking about it, but I don’t have free time atm.
Recently had someone argue Palestine isn’t genocide because the Arab population in Israel is going up.
Any obsession with birth rates is a red flag for brain worms, as surely as talking about skull shape.
There’s some fair clause that it is a genocide, though if it is, it goes both ways. That and most of the conditions that Palestine and Gaza put themselves in are from their own mistakes and faults in the past, such as declaring war a few times (and losing all of them), attacking their neighbouring countries and attacking Europe.
Not that this justifies Israel’s violence. They were killing innocent Arabs before Hamas.
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Any intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group - in whole or in part - is genocide.
This includes killing people, causing severe bodily or mental harm, preventing births, forcibly transferring children to another group, or deliberately creating conditions calculated to bring about physical destruction.
Doing it counts. Conspiring to do it counts. Publicly inciting it to happen counts. Trying to do it obviously counts. Being complicit in any of that, counts.
This is the fucking UN definition of genocide. I am just barely paraphrasing from the relevant articles of convention. If you care more about tone-policing and gatekeeping than you do about an overt effort to dehumanize and kill a specific group in a specific region for ethnic and religious differences, you can eat shit.
If not - we can talk.
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In light of the edit overtly declaring bigoted superiority, reported and blocked.
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Don’t bother. Mindbleach has been a perpetual spammer who just yells his moronic political stances and then acts like he’s superior by ignoring everything anyone else says.
Hey buddy? They both are. Israel is why Palestine is an open-air prison. Israel is the side that keeps killing those human shields, indiscriminately, without one shred of remorse. Apartments, hospitals, refugee centers, whatever.
Maybe inviting the world’s Jews to “go back to Africa” in the exact goddamn center of the Muslim middle-east was not a sensible idea, in terms of minimizing ethno-religious strife.
No country wanted to kill as many Germans as possible - they wanted the fucking war to end. They wanted to kill Hitler specifically, disrupt the Nazi regime, and go back to merely civilized levels of hating one another. Israel hasn’t fucking done that, with Palestine. Mostly they’ve just continued bombing. They’ve made token efforts to claim they want a rehabilitated Palestinian state… but always alongside collective abuses like the strict blockade that obviously leaves Israel in de-facto control of the region’s survival.
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Have it your way.
Hey asshole - don’t split hairs about Gaza versus Palestine, then freely swap between Palestine and Hamas!
For the second and final time: saying you’re gonna do it is not the only thing that counts. Israel’s actions constitute genocide. What they say does not matter. The fact Hamas says it out loud neither absolves Israel nor condemns the rest of Palestine.
If Palestine gets their way, they’ll stop being a densely-populated ghetto amid fresh piles of rubble. Israel will stop using the actions of Hamas to justify killing X*10 number of Palestinians. Children and journalists will stop getting shot near the fuckoff enormous wall keeping them pressed against a sea they’re not really allowed to use.
Human shields did not bomb Israel. Declaring “THEY” keep doing it is collective punishment - also a war crime, by the way. All of this is two sides that fucking hate each other and keep doing obscene violence to each other, and your dumb ass wants to pretend it’s just a poor widdle innocent nuclear power being existentially threatened by people without consistent access to food.
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We? You’re not from Israel, are you? If not, then you should probably shut up.
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If you don’t have a citizenship, you don’t have much of an input.
You’ll need to chill tho
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Ah they’re a tankie
LOOK GUYZ I THINK HE MITHT HAVE A POIJT THERWA NOFFIN THERE
I’ve got no loyalty at all to communism or marxism. But I do have a loyalty to honesty, and I have to object. I don’t see a denial of the Massacre in the screenshotted comment. I see a characterization of it as some kind of US-led attack.
They aren’t saying anything like “that didn’t happen” or “people didn’t die”. Maybe they say it elsewhere, but not here.
Bingo. There’s a difference between saying it didn’t happen and “it happened but it was good”. I would say later is worse. But pretending they are saying something they clearly are not isn’t good
Lemmy is a poisoned seed. Besides the questionable lead developers, you have the most popular lemmy instances enforcing rules arbitrarily while lying about it and removing entries from the modlog arbitrarily making them all but useless. At least it will be a good exercise in determining how well its federated nature allows it to survive.
Given how often it has happened, I’d say it’s the fate of these sort of migrations from other major social networks to be spearhead by lying opportunists and people trying to hide their flaws through abuse of power. Unfortunately, social networks are far removed from the time when the people doing the spearheading where acting as good faith developers exploring what was possible - they’d probably be among the first to get gaslit and DDOSed.
I’m curious about mod log editing, can you elaborate?
But yeah, ml has basically marked my accounts at this point because I’ve repeatedly challenged their socialist orthodoxy and they seem really upset about it. Basically any time I comment I get another ban with no explanation.
It comes from the IWB archivals mentioned here: https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/554307/Just-wanted-a-warning-Lemmy-World-is-perhaps-worse-than-reddit
Basically take https://web.archive.org/web/20231019235547/https://lemmy.world/modlog and try to find the same in this later one https://web.archive.org/web/20231021224842/https://lemmy.world/modlog . You’ll find a lot of missing gaps.
Looks like they didn’t like somebody referencing Tiemaman square
No modlog editing happened. The modlog is federated so editing it makes no sense.
Look up the user internettubes in the modlog and you will find it:
Ok, so it seems that bans by admins don’t show up on the modlog after two days. There wasn’t anything that indicated the auto-filtering so it’s sort of a black box scenario, and it sort of defeats the purpose of the modlog if you have to know the event you are looking for to begin with.
Regarding it being “federated”, I can find InternetTubes both on lemmy.world and lemmy.ml, but lemmy.world’s modlog also shows that kbin.social/InternetTubes has been banned YET lemmy.ml’s modlog doesn’t show it, so the claim that all that is modlog is federated seems sort of iffy.
Now that you are here, as an admin of the instance, can you say anything else about the ban versus what the user is claiming, or is it supposed to be left to speculation?
Regarding it being “federated”, I can find InternetTubes both on lemmy.world and lemmy.ml, but lemmy.world’s modlog also shows that kbin.social/InternetTubes has been banned YET lemmy.ml’s modlog doesn’t show it, so the claim that all that is modlog is federated seems sort of iffy.
So my “claim” is “iffy”, ok. Any Lemmy admin can tell you there are issues with the code. And why would an action from LW purposely be removed from the modlog on lemmy.ml?
You can’t convince me that you’re not internettubes yourself btw. You started posting as soon as Internettubes was banned and the few conversations you join is about the ban.
Now that you are here, as an admin of the instance, can you say anything else about the ban versus what the user is claiming, or is it supposed to be left to speculation?
What’s not clear? The user publicly said they did not agree to the TOS so they got removed. If you don’t agree during signup your account will be locked as well.
Lol you’re really working overtime to defend the utter bullshit your instance calls moderation standards
And why would an action from LW purposely be removed from the modlog on lemmy.ml?
Are you asking me why instances who might want to abuse their power might not propagate certain actions to other instances so they aren’t as visible? Or why it might seem like a bug when attempts at removal don’t seem to work out? I’m not accusing you, but these are valid concerns lemmy has to face.
But yeah, f it’s “bad server code” and not actually federated when bugs occur, there’s not much of a point to claiming they are. So far I don’t see that there might have been willing intent to screw with the modlog as the original complaint suggested, but it shouldn’t be left up to good faith. If it’s supposed to be federated, it should be. If everything isn’t getting federated, it should be clear what isn’t. If the modlog isn’t displaying everything, it should be clear when it isn’t. As of now, to anyone who can’t bother to look at the code, it’s a black box and it’s clear that the modlogs between servers aren’t lining up the same.
The user publicly said they did not agree to the TOS so they got removed.
Where did the user say they did not agree with the TOS? No point in not citing the original comment that was archived, because there’s no point there at which it does. It only contains criticism in a thread made by admins saying they were open to criticism. The closest it comes to not agreeing with the TOS is the criticism here:
“You waive Lemmy.World … from any claims resulting from any action taken by Lemmy.World, and any of the foregoing parties relating to any investigations by either us or by law enforcement authorities.” - I see many lawyers try to sneak this one, but there are very few courts that wouldn’t allow me to file a claim even with this under a Terms of Service I haven’t even had to explicitly indicate I agree with if, say, lemmy.world decided to violate my GDPR protections because censors in China didn’t like a comment I made about Tiananmen Square, requested my personal private data lemmy.world has on me, and they decided to give it to them.
But at least thanks for opening up on that. Is it also true that you haven’t contacted them or responded to them directly either?
You can’t convince me that you’re not internettubes yourself btw. You started posting as soon as Internettubes was banned and the few conversations you join is about the ban.
Considering how little it took for a user to get their entire user account purged and banned, I’m not sure why you would consider it surprising that anyone else who raises an eyebrow wouldn’t want to risk any previous account they made.
It’s a testament that you haven’t banned this account already from the instance given how you treated the original user, but it still seems like hunting around for an excuse, like maybe being able to apply the label of “ban evasion” like that you gave kbin.social/InternetTubes, just to dismiss criticism.
You and AvaddonLFC certainly seem to know each other personally and are the two most active admins on the instance, so if I do seem to be pushing this, it’s because I am definitely concerned about making any considerable amount of contributions over a considerable degree of time only to have it deleted or removed with a complete and utter disregard.
I’d rather face the problem sooner rather than later. Allowing it or not saying anything about it is basically allowing a way to gaslight and remove the reputation a user might have built up over time to one where it’s just a random claim versus a position of seniority. I’ll give you that I am one of the few people who seems to care about the issue, so I probably won’t be returning to my lemmy.world account, at least not without a VPN proxy and a separate VM instance.
Good read, but it should really say psychopaths instead of sociopaths. Sociopaths are those who really aren’t capable of influencing other people because of their social pathologies, although anyone in the mental health industry would probably say both terms are obsolete.
Rules. Lame
Gaslighting. Lamer.
