Hello World,

Today, after careful consideration and evaluation of recent events, we have decided to defederate from Lemmygrad.

Regrettably, we have observed a significant increase in hate speech and calls to violence originating from the Lemmygrad instance. Due to the severity of the posts and comments, we are not waiting for the next Lemmy update that will allow users to block instances.

At Lemmy.world, we have always strived to foster an inclusive and welcoming user environment. However, recent posts and comments from Lemmygrad have clearly violated our server rules and, more importantly, our core values. We firmly believe that hate speech and incitement of violence have no place in our community, regardless of personal beliefs or affiliations.

As always, we encourage all users to report any content they deem inappropriate or harmful. No matter one’s stance in any conflict, Lemmy.world will always take immediate action to remove and ban any posts or comments that incite violence or propagate hatred.

We encourage everyone to continue engaging in discussions within the boundaries of respect and understanding. As we move forward with this decision, we remain committed to providing all community members with a safe and welcoming space. We appreciate your continued support and cooperation in upholding our shared principles.

Thank you,

The Lemmy.World Team

  • kescusay@lemmy.world
    16720·
    1 year ago

    Thank goodness.

    I’m reminded of a story I read a while back - not sure where - about how if you let a Nazi into your bar, you eventually end up running a Nazi bar. I think the same applies to online forums. You let Nazis overrun a forum, everyone else leaves, and eventually you might as well just be running Stormfront.

    • paris@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      180·
      1 year ago

      Original Twitter post

      I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”

      And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed

      Anyway, asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”

      And i was like, ohok and he continues.

      "you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.

      And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.

      And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”

      And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.

      • kescusay@lemmy.world
        522·
        1 year ago

        In my other (non-Lemmy) life, I’ve written extensively about the paradox of tolerance, and how recognizing it de-fangs the arguments of wanna-be totalitarians.

        For people not in the know, Popper proposed that infinite, unrestricted “tolerance” is paradoxically self-destroying, because it necessarily means tolerating attempts to destroy tolerance.

        The solution is simple and obvious in retrospect, but so many people have trouble finding it and worry about whether they’re hypocrites or not for refusing to tolerate Nazis and the like. The solution is this:

        Recognize the fact that you never promised to tolerate Nazis.

        No one ever promised to tolerate everything without caveats or restrictions. Instead, we promised to tolerate each other, to respect one another’s right to exist. In other words, tolerance is a peace treaty.

        As soon as you realize that, it becomes obvious that you needn’t tolerate Nazis, because they have broken the treaty. You are not bound by it when it comes to them. In fact, given the nature of people like that, they were never really signatories to the treaty in the first place, because they start from a basis of intending to destroy it.

        Oh, how they hate it when people realize this and refuse to put up with Nazi bullshit or apologize for that refusal. Well, sorry, Nazi turd burglars, we never promised to put up with your shit in the first place, so y’all can fuck right off.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
          6·
          1 year ago

          Tolerance and peace are both treaties. We agree to leave each other be and not take up arms in exchange for the other to do the same.

          You have no obligation to be tolerant of someone who is intolerant or preaches intolerant ideology.

          You have no obligation to be peaceful to belligerence and violence.

    • BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tfEnglish
      1227·
      1 year ago

      The irony of liberals calling communists Nazis is not lost on me in this comment. It’s genuinely hilarious.

            • BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tfEnglish
              512·
              1 year ago

              Lmaoo I knew you’d take the bait.

              I’m sorry for being confrontational, it’s funny but it doesn’t help anything. I hope you are safe, and never have to experience war or occupation. There’s a saying I like, “When the revolution comes, you won’t just get the wall, buddy. You’ll get four walls, a roof, clean clothes, good food, education, and quality healthcare because that’s what every human being alive deserves.” We may disagree on a lot, but in the end, my goal is the liberation of all peoples, not just people I get along with, so I genuinely wish you well and hope one day to have a better interaction.

              • DarthBueller@lemmy.world
                11·
                1 year ago

                Just like every communist revolution has led to a better life for all, including the millions purged. You’re off your rocker if you think your revolution won’t lead to just a wall for countless numbers of people.

                • BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tfEnglish
                  12·
                  1 year ago

                  Maybe actually examine the material conditions of the peoples in places who have had communist revolutions. It is indisputable that the vast majority of people in such societies had such significant increases in quality of life that it far surpasses anything a capitalist society has ever done.

                  China literally took one of the poorest, least educated, most class-stratified societies in the world, industrialized it, educated it, and became the number 2 super power in 60 years. Chinas life expectancy just surpassed the U.S.’s. Chinas minimum wage has gone up 500% in the last decade or two. In the Same time in the US, the minimum wage has remained the exact same. China has built more high speed rail in the last twenty years than the entire rest of the world combined across all of history. They’ve built more solar and wind farms than anyone else also.

                  Russian life expectancies pre-revolution was 32. 32 years. After the Soviets took over, that began increasing for decades, only lowering again during the worst of WWII fighting, and immediately going back up afterwards. After the collapse of the USSR, under the western policy of Shock Therapy(the reconstitution of capitalist economics), millions of people died and life expectancy plunged by 10 years.

                  Look up nutrition information on Soviet citizens as released by the FBI, where they cite that Soviet citizens ate as many calories as Americans, from healthier sources. Look up what percentage of the population was in the gulag system Vs what percentage of the population is in the American prison system.

                  It seems to be, that capitalism is great for the people at the top, but for those of us at the bottom, socialism is infinitely better. Ration lines to a rich man means he Can’t abuse his position for special privileges. Ration lines to the poor mean having food every day instead of when you can afford it. Most of the things we’ve been told about communism, at least the ones i have heard, are from the perspective of the rich who are upset they lost their place at the head of the table and had to live as equals with those they saw as inferior.

      • mashbooq@lemmy.world
        166·
        1 year ago

        Red fascists: claim to be leftists, behave like Nazis. Leftists: “Fuck off, Nazis.” Red fascists: :surprised pikachu:

      • AreaSIX
        13·
        1 year ago

        This whole thread is just a demonstration of “enlightened centrism”. Someone above is even arguing that hating landlords makes you a fascist! Just chef’s kiss.