"Cutting water, cutting electricity, cutting food to a mass of civilian people is against international law," said EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell in Muscat.
Unfortunately the only right way to go about this is to completely decimate Hamas and force an unconditional surrender then occupy and reprogram Palestinians in the hope that eventually 60 years from now they are able to govern themselves as allies.
Actually the only hope of truly lasting peace is the dissolution of Israel and the creation of a new state that doesn’t limit citizenship and suffrage along ethnic or religious lines.
I doubt that would work. If history is to be of any indication then Palestinians also have no desire to co-exist with Israel. If the sides were reversed Palestine would be doing the exact same things as Israel is doing. Arabs want Israel gone and it’s been clear since the state of Israel was officially founded in 1948.
The UN drew up a two state partition but the muslims boycotted the talks. Then as soon as the plan went into effect, war broke out with the surrounding countries coming to the muslims’ aid.
Both sides were planning on trying to conquer most/any of the territory for themselves. But to state the initial partition plan was drawn up without any input from the inhabitants would be a lie.
The population at that time was around 1/3 - 2/3. After the jewish side won the initial battles a lot of foreign zionists started emigrating into the territory.
If you want to blame anyone for that you can blame the brits for promising to establish a jewish state in Palestine and not really listening to the people living there.
Well yeah, but the Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration to the Palestinians for that fact. Its not the fault of Palestinians no matter which way you cut it, and Britain isn’t in control of Israel. The Israeli state acts on its own behalf.
To my knowledge Israelis were accepting of the UN Palestine Partition plan, the Arab league (alongside Palestinians) completely rejected the idea and threatened to exterminate all jews if the plan is enacted. So the idea that Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration just isn’t factual.
Now the subsequent expansions by Israel and their treatment of Gaza, that I agree is fully on Israel.
The arab league is still not Palestinians. Why is it whenever a group of Palestinians does anything you transplant their actions onto all Palestinians? Are all Americans responsible and complicit in the actions of the republican party?
And Israel and America have both repeatedly compromised negotiations with Palestine. In the mid 90s things were as close as they ever have been to a reasonable future for both Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu himself was involved in those negotiations and entirely sabotaged them. Netanyahu, the man who directly controls the IDF is open racist and genocidal towards Palestinians. And the IDF could genocide them, thats a thing they reasonably have the ability to do.
As always the actions and statements of extremist groups within Palestine are taken by western commentators to be indicative of all Palestinian people. None of us are defending extremist groups, so I don’t know what exactly the point of condemning them in this discussion is.
The problem is that Israel is enacting collective punishment onto all Palestinians. The entire world should be universally condemning this vile slaughter of innocent lives. They’re openly calling Palestinians animals and saying they’re going to raze the mass ghettos they’re forced to live in. It is unacceptable. It is disgusting.
I doubt Israel will be up for ‘dissolition’. The more achievable goal would be an end to violence and land grabs along an internationally recognized border.
Perhaps that’s true but that simply means Israel is not interested in truly lasting peace. Reconciliation is the only possible long term solution, just the same as in every other colonial project. After decades of settlement the Palestinian state would resemble Swiss cheese. It’s not feasible. A two state solution is only setting things up for further conflict down the road. As difficult as it would be, an egalitarian secular state is the only path forward.
Noone wins a war of occupation. You either learn to live with conquered peoples and give them access tibequal rights (Roman empire) or completely erase the local population (Europeans in North America).
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
Unfortunately the only right way to go about this is to completely decimate Hamas and force an unconditional surrender then occupy and reprogram Palestinians in the hope that eventually 60 years from now they are able to govern themselves as allies.
Actually the only hope of truly lasting peace is the dissolution of Israel and the creation of a new state that doesn’t limit citizenship and suffrage along ethnic or religious lines.
I doubt that would work. If history is to be of any indication then Palestinians also have no desire to co-exist with Israel. If the sides were reversed Palestine would be doing the exact same things as Israel is doing. Arabs want Israel gone and it’s been clear since the state of Israel was officially founded in 1948.
Founded is an odd way of writing colonized without any input or consideration by the people who were already living there.
The UN drew up a two state partition but the muslims boycotted the talks. Then as soon as the plan went into effect, war broke out with the surrounding countries coming to the muslims’ aid.
Both sides were planning on trying to conquer most/any of the territory for themselves. But to state the initial partition plan was drawn up without any input from the inhabitants would be a lie.
The population at that time was around 1/3 - 2/3. After the jewish side won the initial battles a lot of foreign zionists started emigrating into the territory.
If you want to blame anyone for that you can blame the brits for promising to establish a jewish state in Palestine and not really listening to the people living there.
Well yeah, but the Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration to the Palestinians for that fact. Its not the fault of Palestinians no matter which way you cut it, and Britain isn’t in control of Israel. The Israeli state acts on its own behalf.
To my knowledge Israelis were accepting of the UN Palestine Partition plan, the Arab league (alongside Palestinians) completely rejected the idea and threatened to exterminate all jews if the plan is enacted. So the idea that Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration just isn’t factual.
Now the subsequent expansions by Israel and their treatment of Gaza, that I agree is fully on Israel.
The arab league is still not Palestinians. Why is it whenever a group of Palestinians does anything you transplant their actions onto all Palestinians? Are all Americans responsible and complicit in the actions of the republican party?
And Israel and America have both repeatedly compromised negotiations with Palestine. In the mid 90s things were as close as they ever have been to a reasonable future for both Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu himself was involved in those negotiations and entirely sabotaged them. Netanyahu, the man who directly controls the IDF is open racist and genocidal towards Palestinians. And the IDF could genocide them, thats a thing they reasonably have the ability to do.
As always the actions and statements of extremist groups within Palestine are taken by western commentators to be indicative of all Palestinian people. None of us are defending extremist groups, so I don’t know what exactly the point of condemning them in this discussion is.
The problem is that Israel is enacting collective punishment onto all Palestinians. The entire world should be universally condemning this vile slaughter of innocent lives. They’re openly calling Palestinians animals and saying they’re going to raze the mass ghettos they’re forced to live in. It is unacceptable. It is disgusting.
Them kick em both out, bomb Jerusalem, move on.
Just take all the Israelis out of that region and give them Ohio.
I doubt Israel will be up for ‘dissolition’. The more achievable goal would be an end to violence and land grabs along an internationally recognized border.
Perhaps that’s true but that simply means Israel is not interested in truly lasting peace. Reconciliation is the only possible long term solution, just the same as in every other colonial project. After decades of settlement the Palestinian state would resemble Swiss cheese. It’s not feasible. A two state solution is only setting things up for further conflict down the road. As difficult as it would be, an egalitarian secular state is the only path forward.
This. Israel never should have been there in the first place. It’s stolen land, ruled by a tyrannical apartheid regime.
Noone wins a war of occupation. You either learn to live with conquered peoples and give them access tibequal rights (Roman empire) or completely erase the local population (Europeans in North America).