If we’re being truthful, Satan is supposed to be punished in hell too, its only modern works that portray him as the one ‘ruling’ and dishing it out to people in hell.
Biblical Satan is a role, not a person. I’ve seen it translated as “opponent” or “rival”. Something like a “devil’s advocate” in catholic church - person or entity who tests somebody’s faith.
And Lucifer is again a completely different character, not related to Satan until much later.
The devils advocate in Catholicism is something very specific and not at all that. In order for someone to be determined a Saint there’s more or less a trial. One side presents arguments that say the individual has met the criteria by which one can be determined a Saint. The other side, which is called the devils advocate, attempts to poke holes in it and presents arguments by which the individual hasn’t met those conditions. They’ll do things like bring up sins and character flaws that persisted into the individual’s saintly period, as well as attempt to disprove any miracles the individual is said to have committed.
You can find it here. Along with a scathing rebuke to those who wear the name Christian and yet are so full of hate they refuse to do any of these things.
Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Well, that’s embarrassing. I thought for sure that was one of those things that was created from extra-biblical sources.
This really makes me wonder about those Christians who claim that it’s faith, not works, that gets you into Heaven. This seems like a strong argument for the opposite.
The argument is that it’s faith that gets you into heaven, but the proof of true faith is found in works. If you claim to be faithful but do not do good works, your faith is dead.
Well unfortunately the majority of Christians believe that simply believing in Jesus grants them access. Who needs morals when you can just ask for forgiveness every time you do bad thing 🤷
They mention it a lot, but never say what it is beyond it having fire that never goes out, some passage in Matthew.
Christians have just ran away with some ideas, just like with pro-life, just like with the devil, just like with most of the religion. You decide what you want to believe and twist the Bible to back it up.
If you listen to the Yazidis he was sent to Hell for defying God by not bowing down to us humans, his greatest work, despite God telling Satan to never bow to anyone because he was made of God’s essence rather than us, made in his likeness.
So he went to Hell for 10 000 years until his tears put out the fires of Hell, then God forgave him. He also rewarded him for honoring his original pact with God and was given Dominion over Earth.
He took this Dominion and gave us Humans “Knowledge” like the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, only the Knowledge was of Farming.
Thing is, the Yazidis live awefully close to what is thought to be the birthplace of Farming.
When asked to describe Satan, they described him as a Peacock holding a sheaf of Wheat in it’s beak, the same image found in Gobekli Tepe, which is thought to be a shrine that taught Farming to the world.
Hail Satan.
Edit: this is just my understanding after reading an article or 2 on the subject, I’m probably wrong about loads of it, but it’s all just stories anyway so who cares?
Actually, Satan is always described as being on earth. In Genesis, Lucifer is cast down to earth, not hell. In Job Satan tells God he’s passing by during his comings and goings on earth. In the Gospels, Satan tempts Jesus in the desert.
Well that concept isn’t in the Bible and even if it were then 1667 would still be somewhat “contemporary” compared to when the Christian scriptures were supposedly written. Of course I say all that as if any of it is real or matters anyway lol
If we’re being truthful, Satan is supposed to be punished in hell too, its only modern works that portray him as the one ‘ruling’ and dishing it out to people in hell.
If we’re really being truthful, none of that stuff’s in the Bible.
Biblical Satan is a role, not a person. I’ve seen it translated as “opponent” or “rival”. Something like a “devil’s advocate” in catholic church - person or entity who tests somebody’s faith.
And Lucifer is again a completely different character, not related to Satan until much later.
The devils advocate in Catholicism is something very specific and not at all that. In order for someone to be determined a Saint there’s more or less a trial. One side presents arguments that say the individual has met the criteria by which one can be determined a Saint. The other side, which is called the devils advocate, attempts to poke holes in it and presents arguments by which the individual hasn’t met those conditions. They’ll do things like bring up sins and character flaws that persisted into the individual’s saintly period, as well as attempt to disprove any miracles the individual is said to have committed.
Is that the origin of devils advocate?
That is super interesting if so
Aaand that’s the interpretation The Church of Satan takes. They’re atheists and don’t believe in Satan as an entity.
You’re thinking of The Satanic Temple. CoS is a theistic organization started by Anton Lavey. They worship a literal Satan.
https://www.churchofsatan.com/faq-fundamental-beliefs/
Why does faith need to be tested?
Christians seem to love the concept. The idea is if you keep believing if seriously challenged, it means you are a true believer.
The height of stupidity and evil.
I didn’t read the Bible fully but as far as I know there are only very few mentions of satan/devil and stuff.
666 the number of the beast.
A story about a guys faith and a bet between god and the devil.
The fall of lucifer the angle (not linked to either above)
And maybe the devil is mentioned in a few more sentences but not more.
Not a bad take, clearly can be read that way in the English. But I don’t read Greek, so I can’t tell you one way or the other.
You can find it here. Along with a scathing rebuke to those who wear the name Christian and yet are so full of hate they refuse to do any of these things.
Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
Well, that’s embarrassing. I thought for sure that was one of those things that was created from extra-biblical sources.
This really makes me wonder about those Christians who claim that it’s faith, not works, that gets you into Heaven. This seems like a strong argument for the opposite.
Indeed. To quote more of the bible:
James 2:26 (kjv) “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
The argument is that it’s faith that gets you into heaven, but the proof of true faith is found in works. If you claim to be faithful but do not do good works, your faith is dead.
Well unfortunately the majority of Christians believe that simply believing in Jesus grants them access. Who needs morals when you can just ask for forgiveness every time you do bad thing 🤷
What is “none of that stuff”? Both Satan and Hell are in the Bible.
They mention it a lot, but never say what it is beyond it having fire that never goes out, some passage in Matthew.
Christians have just ran away with some ideas, just like with pro-life, just like with the devil, just like with most of the religion. You decide what you want to believe and twist the Bible to back it up.
Almost the entirety of hell was made up by Dante Alegeri
Not sure why I’m being down voted. You’ve reaffirmed my statement.
Well when someone says something like Hell, a huge fixture of the religion, is in their holy book they just expect more than a sentence or two.
If you listen to the Yazidis he was sent to Hell for defying God by not bowing down to us humans, his greatest work, despite God telling Satan to never bow to anyone because he was made of God’s essence rather than us, made in his likeness.
So he went to Hell for 10 000 years until his tears put out the fires of Hell, then God forgave him. He also rewarded him for honoring his original pact with God and was given Dominion over Earth.
He took this Dominion and gave us Humans “Knowledge” like the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, only the Knowledge was of Farming.
Thing is, the Yazidis live awefully close to what is thought to be the birthplace of Farming.
When asked to describe Satan, they described him as a Peacock holding a sheaf of Wheat in it’s beak, the same image found in Gobekli Tepe, which is thought to be a shrine that taught Farming to the world.
Hail Satan.
Edit: this is just my understanding after reading an article or 2 on the subject, I’m probably wrong about loads of it, but it’s all just stories anyway so who cares?
That’s super interesting, thanks!
Thank you for the input, /u/MyPornViewingAccount.
Lmao youre welcome. Its what i get for not swapping
MyPornViewingAccount@lemmy.world
deleted by creator
Actually, Satan is always described as being on earth. In Genesis, Lucifer is cast down to earth, not hell. In Job Satan tells God he’s passing by during his comings and goings on earth. In the Gospels, Satan tempts Jesus in the desert.
Revelation 19 says the beast (maybe satan?) will be thrown into the lake of fire, and Rev 20 says the same for Satan.
Sounds like they’re not in the lake of fire then, considering nothing in revelations has come to pass.
Just not always described as on earth.
Paradise Lost is from 1667.
Well that concept isn’t in the Bible and even if it were then 1667 would still be somewhat “contemporary” compared to when the Christian scriptures were supposedly written. Of course I say all that as if any of it is real or matters anyway lol
Hell is not biblical