Right?
“people wait for MONTHS for non-emergent surgeries in places with universal healthcare”
You mean exactly like how the doctors here schedule grandma’s knee replacement for May in January?
There is no non-luxury millionaire concierge medicine plan eventuality here in the US where someone complains about chronic pain, gets a diagnosis that isn’t life threatening, and has the doctor pencil in their chronic pain addressing surgery for that afternoon.
Just another empty strawman explicitly made to derail the conversation.
Dude a millionaire isn’t even rich anymore. Any boomer who bought and paid off their house since the 80s-90s in a halfway populated area is most the way there just in home equity alone.
The arguments about “inefficiency” and “bureaucracy” have to be the most baffling ones to me. We already have a system that is an inefficient maze of red tape, lengthy forms, and arbitrary decisions about healthcare availability made by suits without medical training. We already pay high premiums. What “efficiencies” of capitalist healthcare are we so desperate to preserve?
Every single dollar earned in profit by a health insurance company is a dollar that was spent on healthcare, for which no healthcare was delivered. And there are billions of them.
Health insurance company profits are literally inefficiency in the system.
Health insurance company profits are literally inefficiency in the system.
And an absolutely staggering inefficiency at that. The US spends roughly twice as much per capita as the rest of the developed world for healthcare, for health outcomes that are ranked nowhere near the top. A 100% inefficiency, attributable entirely to private health insurance.
The ability to efficiently empty your wallet into a company’s bank account.
cApItaLIsm iS tHe OnlY EfFiCiEnT sYsUUuuuuM!!11!1!1 - every capitalist-simp
Capitalism is very analogous to evolution. I wouldn’t call it efficient in any way.
interesting, pls expand
Someone starts a new company. It either grows or dies. The company can change over time to adapt to it’s environment, it can split, it can spawn new companies. The ones that fit best in their environment survive. The ones that don’t die. Some companies fill a specific niche and never grow beyond that. If they grow too big they can outpace their environment and destroy it and themselves.
and some turn into literal cancer that is killing society!
Some companies fill a specific niche and never grow beyond that. If they grow too big they can outpace their environment and destroy it and themselves.
Don’t mind me, just fantasizing about the alternate timeline where Amazon never expanded past selling books.
Is that efficiency?
Nope that’s why it takes so long and causes species extinction along the way
pls expand:
C a p i t a l i s m i s a n a l o g o u s t o e v o l u t i o n . I w o u l d n ’ t c a l l i t e f f i c i e n t i n a n y w a y .
pls expound:
Someone starts a new company. It either grows or dies. The company can change over time to adapt to it’s environment, it can split, it can spawn new companies. The ones that fit best in their environment survive. The ones that don’t die. Some companies fill a specific niche and never grow beyond that. If they grow too big they can outpace their environment and destroy it and themselves.
Efficiency only comes at scale. Only way to be truly efficient in capitalism is to ultimately have the entire system fold into one conglomerate monopoly.
At that point, how is that better than communism or socialism?
Its the only system… what an odd thing to say.
Are you… Unfamiliar with the numerous other types economic systems?
what an odd thing to say.
Uno reverse.
Please name an economic system on planet earth that doesnt revolve around capitalism and where it is used.
OP did not specify “currently in use”. You added that all by yourself. Additionally, something currently being in use does not imply it is the best possible option. We lived under fuedal socio-economic systems for thousands of years, now we live under corporatist/capitalist systems. I don’t know what will come in the future.
So none then. See that was easy
Nice strawman, made that one yourself?
Amsterdam, Doughnut Economics, Time article from 2021 While the long term viability of this may still be in questions, this at least answers your questions of “Name an economic system on planet earth”
Sorry you are right, there are some communities that are trying things on their own. For instance in Israel they have some socialist communities in their kibbutz in the settlement areas. They tried being self sufficient but later ended up being reliant on government subsidies. So Amsterdam having a different system within the Netherlands makes sense. I would imagine there are many more communities like these but I have not heard of a whole government body working outside of capitalism.
Updoots
The efficiency of the system at making a few people very rich. Sure, it impoverishes people like us - but someday, WE might be rich! And then people like us better watch our step!
“It takes MONTHS to get surgery in those dirty socialist countries!”
Everyone I know who has taken months to get in for surgery in THIS fucking country:
And the poor people who don’t go to the hospital unless they’re actively dying because they’re living paycheck to paycheck and cant afford it…
Shit, not even “poor” people, not with these healthcare premiums and prices…
Thats exactly what they mean when they complain about wait times in other countries. In their mind, it’s better for other people to suffer and die than to be in front of them in line. Especially poor people.
It’s always some American that seems to personally know a ton of people that live in the UK and waited 2 years to have some major surgery. Or know someone that was stabbed and had to wait 36 hours in a A&E waiting room.
I mean don’t get me wrong the NHS is stretched very thin under the tories and ambulances especially are pretty fucked st the minute, but when I broke my arm I was stabilised quickly overnight, scheduled for an op in the morning, operated on, given time to recover and 2 good meals and sent on my way withing 24 hours od admission. And then just the other day when I dislocated my knee and tore a ligament I was seen to, stabiled and released within a few hours.
when I was in the uk I went in with an eye infection on Christmas eve as my GP was shut - 8 hour wait
when my appendix went septic - instantly into surgery
people just think they should always be triaged top of the list. yes, it sucks that it hurts, but it’s probably not an emergency
It’s gotten to the point where my doctor’s practice got bought by Walgreens and doesn’t staff well enough to handle ANY acute cases. If I call for a sinus infection or because my little one is sick, I can’t see my doctor or his pediatrician for upwards of two months. They send me to urgent care. They, admittedly, bill the same for urgent care as a normal visit, but there is no continuity of care, even for the pediatrician. Even when trying to schedule a 9 month checkup 45 days in advance, they tried to give me an appointment after his birthday!
What a fucking mess. Corporitization of Healthcare has utterly ruined the system. There is no room for real patient-doctor relationships anymore. Even though we like our doctors we can’t see them!
I actually use a telehealth primary and I really appreciate the convenience of it. They refer out whenever they need hands on stuff and there’s always something nearby.
That said, I do appreciate the niche for retail health for acute cases. A sick visit at my pediatrician is still $225 until I hit my deductible. I’d much rather pay MinuteClinic $30 and walk out with the same z-pack for my kid. It still sucks, but it beats deciding between “keep him home and hopefully he gets better before he’s a truant” or “paying $225”.
Oof, I’m so glad that my insurance covers normal physician visits with just a copay, even before hitting my deductible.
Just curious, how bad is your deductible?
That was the HDHP so it was $1500/individual, $3000/family, per year.
The premiums were low though (well, lower. Total cost of my families healthcare was $27k last year but that was including my employers contribution to premiums). Last year my employer had a great program for seeding HSA (huge match) so it was slightly less expensive than the $500 deductible plan, even considering out-of-pocket max for both plans.
It sucks that there’s so much strategy involved in basic healthcare. It sucks that anyone has to make the decision between get their kid the healthcare they need, or not spend $225 for 3 minutes of their doctors time. It sucks even more that someone like me, whose family grosses nearly 200k, even has to think about that. That’s not a dig at “those dirty poors” or anything…more of a claim of the absurdity of the damn thing. Like…how the fuck do people on the median in become even manage? Or even below it? It’s just not possible.
My roommate waited 9 months for a specialty surgery, but the surgeon injured themself right before his surgery and he then needed to go on the waitlist for an additional 6 months. He finally got the surgery, but instead of it being in the summer, it was during midterms, which fucked him over.
I fucking hate American healthcare, and I hate the “socialism is when you wait 6 months for a doctor” bullshit that always comes up when socialized healthcare is discussed.
It took 5 months between my doctor putting me in the system to get my tubes tied and when I was able to get it scheduled. I need an ultrasound and my doctor was like “get that asap” which apparently means 2 months because that was the next opening. I’m supposed to have a skin cancer screening once a year since I’ve had it before and that took 3 months to schedule. Yeah, US healthcare is suuuuper efficient.
No kidding. 6 month wait to see a PCP for a physical. 3 weeks to see them for an acute issue. Off to the ED to wait hours or walk-in and pay a premium. Maybe you lose your PCP because you changed jobs or your job changed insurance. But you can pay a premium out of pocket to go to your old one.
The republicans got the death panels they were screaming about. They just wanted to make sure they were profitable.
You see, government death panels are terrible.
Corporate death panels to boost profitability, though, are freedom, baseball, and apple pie.
I called all the local PCPs today. One entire hospital system doesn’t accept my insurance (Cigna) due to price negotiations. All the others don’t have new patient appointments until December. So I guess in about 11 months, I can find out if I’m healthy!
Imagine sticking up for shitty insurance companies 🤮
But I thought we weren’t allowed to compare the US to other countries
Spot on, well played OP!
As someone who moved to a country with privatized healthcare and is currently sitting in a 10 minute line to get seen, this meme can shove itself up OPs butt.
Universal healthcare is great, but someone should be able to pay to get seen quickly. I want that option.
No, they should not be able to. The most in need of treatment should get treatment first, period. Paying to get seen quickly is quite literally paying to have someone higher up on the priority list bumped down due to their financial capability.
“Lol sorry mate, yea you’re in excruciating pain and can afford a private doctor in 2/3rds of the world, but maybe you shouldn’t have done something stupid to wind up this way. Please wait 6 hours.”
“Why are all the wealthy people moving away???”
I personally take pride in not giving the Canadian government their absurd tax rate anymore.
Damn that’s crazy bro… Go fly to your private hospital then
If it means literally not dying, buying a plane ticket to a place with healthcare seems reasonable to me. It’s what people in 3rd world countries do, so why shouldn’t we?
If you’re in excruciating pain, you aren’t going to wait longer than people higher up in the priority list. Paying to get ahead means you’re skipping people who need the care more than you do, and you’re saying that you shouldn’t have to be treated like the rest of the poors.
Honestly disgusting rhetoric.
I’d love to agree, but 2 months ago my mum had a minor stroke and waited all day to get seen. Here’s the chat from her time:
She could have driven to the states and paid for treatment in that time. Paying means you’re skipping the queue? I’m asking for private hospitals that can actually manage their queue.
That says nothing about who was ahead of her in line. Sounds like you need more funding for Healthcare, not bullshit privatized hospitals that cause poor people to die or go bankrupt.
Sure, country needs more funding for healthcare. Hope they have fun with that, I left. I voted and advocated for education and healthcare while I was there, but I’m not gonna die over it. I got other things to do with my life.
The funny thing is that there is privatized healthcare in Canada on top of their universal healthcare, if you see yourself more important than the peasants who need to use it.
Truly spoken like someone who hasn’t tried to get good healthcare in Canada
Are you saying that the privatized healthcare doesn’t exist?
I’m in Canada and you really know what hospital in your city to go to, there’s one or two with crazy wait times but in general it’s fine. Or you go to a walk in clinic unless you’re critical. Paying a premium to get in quick sounds fine, until you realize your paying to get in quicker, just shoved a poor person who may be worse off than you, to the back of the line cause they can’t afford the premium service.
Nobody should be able to pay to get seen quickly, that bloats the entire system and fundamentally destroys the concept of triage.
The fundamental flaw with your argument is you’re assuming hospitals can’t do more with more funding
Triage will exist regardless of the size of the hospital. If people can pay more, then it should be funded with more taxes, not privatized so that the concept of triage is ruined and poor people die because rich people want to cut in line.
Pretty much same reply as I made to another comment -
Then it should be funded with more taxes
Yea it should. Hope they have fun with it, I left because I’m not gonna risk dying while they figure that out.
As a follow-up, perhaps the issue isn’t private vs public healthcare, because both the US and Canada are melting garbage. In any case, I moved to Korea, and the healthcare is to die for (thankfully I no longer need to do that).
